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I feel this needs to be shared.  

I refuse to accept that this "era we're in" is a new normal or acceptable in any way. 

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16 minutes ago, Pariah said:

Wait, they can DO that? :eg: 

 

Passengers who harassed Romney at SLC Airport placed on No-Fly list

 

It's called "consequences", boys and girls. 

 

As you can imagine, I don't like the overreach.

 

But man, the crazy people out there (going this far for Trump).  😕

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3 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

As you can imagine, I don't like the overreach.

 

But man, the crazy people out there (going this far for Trump).  😕

 

After 9-11, misbehaving inside an airport once you get through security is no different than misbehaving inside an airplane while it's in the air.

 

Considering that if you go very far at all you could be charged with federal crimes, being put on a company's no-fly list is relatively mild.

 

And this particular article wasn't very clear but the people were put on Delta Airlines' internal no-fly list so that they can't fly on Delta Airlines. These people were not put on the national no-fly list.

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There's a lot of false equivalency being tossed around on the right to try to downplay and equate the insurrectionists with BLM, Antifa, and people concerned about Russian interference.  I'm assuming this level of diversion and denial lasts until the first domestic terror act to occur during the new administration, likely committed explicitly in Trump's name.  

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4 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

 

This one photo: it always is at least a possibility that this one item actually belonged to the guy and that he brought it to the White House as part of his office decorations. People do bring items from home to display in their office and not everyone grows up in a 1 bedroom apartment on the wrong side of town.

 

(I could make a lot of money on the side by buying a bunch of cheap but historical-looking things, displaying them and taking pictures in my White House office, then selling them later as authentic items which were in the White House when Trump was president. I'd be shocked if none of the Trump grifters has thought of doing that.)

 

That aside, I always expected the White House to be looted or vandalized when the pro-Trumpers left. If you have no respect for the government, the republic, or its institutions, there's no reason to suspect that you'd start having that respect as you're clearing out your desk.

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4 hours ago, Pariah said:

Wait, they can DO that? :eg: 

 

Passengers who harassed Romney at SLC Airport placed on No-Fly list

 

It's called "consequences", boys and girls. 

 

CNN did an interview with a Democratic congressman from California because he took an insane amount of harassment from *several* Trump supporters.  The brief version is here:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/01/11/rep-lou-correa-dulles-airport-harassment-orig-jm.cnn

The longer version showed while the congressman was talking to Don Lemon had multiple voices and much more stridency.

And Tricksta, this was Delta's response;  the passenger wasn't put onto the national, TSA No-Fly list.  Just Delta's.  Here's the question on whether this is an overrreaction:  imagine this happened on the plane.  Moving to a physical assault would be an escalation, to be sure...but how much of one?  I'm just saying punches, of course.  What is the risk it would spread, so it was no longer one person on each side?  This absolutely affects the safe and proper operation of the plane, so even if you think it's a *small* risk...it's far too much to accept.

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Although I have radically shifted in my overall views, my personal roots are in libtertarianism. One thing I have learned is that the division between Democrats and Republicans at least creates some space in the middle to make a case for strong free speech. I am about as free speech as you can get.

But I have grown towards a more encompassing view of incitement. "I kind of like Nazis," is free speech. Having a parade with swastikas in a racially diverse city is a threat.

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20 minutes ago, pawsplay said:

Although I have radically shifted in my overall views, my personal roots are in libtertarianism. One thing I have learned is that the division between Democrats and Republicans at least creates some space in the middle to make a case for strong free speech. I am about as free speech as you can get.

But I have grown towards a more encompassing view of incitement. "I kind of like Nazis," is free speech. Having a parade with swastikas in a racially diverse city is a threat.

 

The Confederate Flag is our swastika.

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10 minutes ago, pawsplay said:

Although I have radically shifted in my overall views, my personal roots are in libtertarianism. One thing I have learned is that the division between Democrats and Republicans at least creates some space in the middle to make a case for strong free speech. I am about as free speech as you can get.

But I have grown towards a more encompassing view of incitement. "I kind of like Nazis," is free speech. Having a parade with swastikas in a racially diverse city is a threat.

 

This debate is not new.  

https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center/topics/freedom-of-speech-2/personal-public-expression-overview/fighting-words/

 

But it's rather nuanced:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fighting_words

 

Your example of a parade with swastikas is flirting on the border, IIRC.  Some such have been turned down for permits, others have I believe received them.  It'll also have to be decided by the courts whether more clearly violent expressions in social media *outside* the event in question, becomes a factor.

 

Also, the standards against which these decisions are made, are not fixed.  The social climate should be a factor.  Our culture takes umbrage now for much less insult, and reacts more strongly.  So what constitutes "tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" is also dynamic.  Individual reaction versus mob reaction is another factor.

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23 minutes ago, pawsplay said:

I would say it's more like our Iron Cross... a formerly neutral military symbol that was used to replace images of a disfavored government, but which was immediately co-opted by people in piece time to ambiguously signal their allegiance in the peacetime after.

 

But the confederate flag was a political symbol from the get-go, given that it was the common symbol of the confederate government.  Your argument would hold up better had the swastika not been the centerpiece of the Nazi flag, and used more as a personal symbol...say, as an alternative to the stylized SS tabs.  

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The Justice Department’s Office of Public Affairs on Thursday launched a new webpage listing every defendant facing charges in Washington, D.C., over their alleged roles in last week’s violent pro-Trump riot at the Capitol. 

 

The page lists the name of each defendant, along with their specific charges, place of residency, the case status and the date the information was last updated on the website. The page’s extensive chart also includes links to digital copies of the press releases and charging documents associated with each case. 

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/investigations-regarding-violence-capitol

 

(Hat tip to The Hill)

 

MAGA:

 

Many 

Are

Getting

Arrested

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11 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

But the confederate flag was a political symbol from the get-go, given that it was the common symbol of the confederate government.  

 

What we generally think of as the confederate flag is really the battle flag used by the southern armies. They came up with that for battlefield use because the "Stars and Bars" official flag of the confederacy was too similar to the USA flag and caused confusion on the battlefield.

 

The confederate battle flag wasn't adopted for use by the confederate government until 1863.

 

So his comparison of that flag (in it's original use) to the Iron Cross (in it's original use) wasn't entirely inaccurate.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

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45 minutes ago, archer said:

The Justice Department’s Office of Public Affairs on Thursday launched a new webpage listing every defendant facing charges in Washington, D.C., over their alleged roles in last week’s violent pro-Trump riot at the Capitol. 

 

The page lists the name of each defendant, along with their specific charges, place of residency, the case status and the date the information was last updated on the website. The page’s extensive chart also includes links to digital copies of the press releases and charging documents associated with each case. 

 

 

I find this development unsettling. I understand the deterrent intent behind the decision, but these people are still only charged, not convicted. It doesn't matter how good the evidence is, "innocent until proven guilty" and "due process" are still supposed to be cornerstones of the American justice system. Making these people's names and locations public, in this political climate, means they and their loved ones face ostracism, harassment, or worse. It's punishing them before they've been convicted.

 

This smacks a little too much of an "enemies list" for my liking.

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16 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

I find this development unsettling. I understand the deterrent intent behind the decision, but these people are still only charged, not convicted. It doesn't matter how good the evidence is, "innocent until proven guilty" and "due process" are still supposed to be cornerstones of the American justice system. Making these people's names and locations public, in this political climate, means they and their loved ones face ostracism, harassment, or worse. It's punishing them before they've been convicted.

 

This smacks a little too much of an "enemies list" for my liking.

 

That's all public information anyway. The only difference is that the government is gathering the information in one location rather than having it available to the public in a wide variety of government websites. Or depending on a third party to look it up on government websites and provide people with links to the information.

 

Once you're arrested and charged, that becomes public information because it's in the court system. Anybody can look up the name of the person, the charges against them, and the dates if they want to go through the effort.

 

edit:

Like here's a third party site which was linking to all the information.

 

https://seditiontracker.com/

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Archer is absolutely correct, and I get what you’re driving at, LL, however.

 

And I say this as someone with strong liberal leanings, who values their anonymity above almost all else: this is just the chickens coming home to roost. After the doxxing, the virtual bullying, the Proud Boys insisting on beating people up in the streets like a scene out of Fight Club, and the fact they’re exceptionally outspoken, they aren’t going to be ostracized by this any more than they already were by the company they elected to keep and those who they shunned.

 

My wife’s Aunt has gone “full Q” as we say, and I can tell you that not only did she make my mother in law cry on her birthday, she’s never going to see my daughter again, even by video call. And I feel zero bad about enforcing that, but super bad about having to do it.

 

I may be rambling. But this is our justice system functioning as designed and enforcing the law, rather than the vigilante justice these individuals have attempted to enforce.

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