Lord Liaden Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Fair enough. I stand chastised. 😔 8 hours ago, archer said: It probably depends a lot on which particular group of people are taking part in the discussion. I took your comment as a joke rather than a sincere wish on your part that such things happen or your genuine views on how prisons should be run. Very much so, yes. Apparently that crossed a line, for which I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 The governor of Michigan is getting charged by his ag with dereliction of duty and is looking at ten years CES pinecone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 hours ago, archer said: I've got to admit that all the rioters would have been perceived much differently if they were wearing spandex tights. Eh, not so much... Jack Kirby's Son Neal Denounces Capitol Rioters Wearing Captain America Symbols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lectryk Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, csyphrett said: The governor of Michigan is getting charged by his ag with dereliction of duty and is looking at ten years CES Former governor of Michigan, please. Those of us from Michigan on the list might be the only ones who care, but Snyder is out. As a side note, I don't think his policies would have gotten him targeted in a kidnapping plot (if he had reacted to Covid the way I expect he would have, given his other stances on public health v the economy in the past). With that article posted up-thread about misogyny, I wonder how much of that plot was motivated by 'Us guys have to save Michigan from the crazy woman' who happens to be a Democrat, how much was anti-Democrat in general, and how much was all government is bad. TrickstaPriest and Sociotard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 9 hours ago, Ragitsu said: "Prison justice" is right down there with "frontier justice" and "mob justice". As I read that "mob justice", I see a certain irony. Agreed that "You should get what you were trying to give" is vengeance, not justice. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, csyphrett said: The governor of Michigan is getting charged by his ag with dereliction of duty and is looking at ten years CES This was in relation to the Flint water crisis, and I'm seeing 2 misdemeanor counts. So, no, not 10 years or anything close. That's what I'm seeing anyway:https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/us/michigan-former-governor-snyder-flint-water-charges/index.html Which is also a slap on the wrist, but it might well be the only really provable charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Cygnia said: Eh, not so much... Jack Kirby's Son Neal Denounces Capitol Rioters Wearing Captain America Symbols Have they read a Captain America comic lately? Maybe they're fans of the early version of "Ultimate" Captain America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 It's more likely that most people today know Captain America through movies, but then they have even less excuse. This riot was against everything that movie Cap stands for and fought for. "I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from." "This isn't freedom. This is fear." Iuz the Evil, Cygnia and unclevlad 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 And Cap is one of the most powerful, most recognizable exemplars of patriotism. They latch onto that word and apply their distorted understanding to it. No...not understanding. Wrong word. Their notion of "patriotism" is too often tied to their idea of the country as they want it to be...and anything in opposition is therefore "unpatriotic." So their notion of "patriotic" is fundamentally self-centered, when that is almost the diametric opposite of what it does mean. Lord Liaden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Patriotism is supposed to be loyalty to a country, to the best interests of the whole. Too many Americans today seem to think it means loyalty to one man. And it's even more misguided for it to be to that man, of all people. aylwin13, archer, Chris Goodwin and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 33 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: Patriotism is supposed to be loyalty to a country, to the best interests of the whole. Too many Americans today seem to think it means loyalty to one man. And it's even more misguided for it to be to that man, of all people. Yes, to the first; no, to the second, IMO. Because the roots predate Trump by many years. Trump co-opted them by making them believe he stood for what they stand for. Trump's support has dropped notably since the 6th, tearing the veil for many. They still want their narrow interpretation, I think; they finally recognize Trump is not the vehicle for it. EDIT: another aspect here is the long-term demonization of the Democrats and anything they might stand for. They stood with Trump because they can't *conceive* the possibility of supporting the Democrats. This aspect will be tested over the next 2 years, big time. TrickstaPriest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Cap would beat that ass. Those people in their actions are the antithesis of everything the character stands for. Good for Kirby’s kid to point out the inappropriateness. aylwin13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, unclevlad said: This was in relation to the Flint water crisis, and I'm seeing 2 misdemeanor counts. So, no, not 10 years or anything close. That's what I'm seeing anyway:https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/us/michigan-former-governor-snyder-flint-water-charges/index.html Which is also a slap on the wrist, but it might well be the only really provable charges. You're right one year, and one k. Seems too little for the biggest manmade environmental disaster CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Cygnia said: Eh, not so much... Jack Kirby's Son Neal Denounces Capitol Rioters Wearing Captain America Symbols Well, I was thinking more along the lines that most of the general public would have thought the rioters belonged in the looney bin rather than a regular prison if the rioters had been wearing spandex tights. But it's also nice that Kirby's son isn't one of the nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 59 minutes ago, csyphrett said: You're right one year, and one k. Seems too little for the biggest manmade environmental disaster CES It's per charge so it could be 2 years, but yeah. OTOH as I said, proving something more serious might be deemed unlikely. Snyder didn't cause the problem; you can't even blame him legally for a decision made by someone he appointed, when that was to an independent position. Tney *have* filed more serious charges against others like the state medical officer, including involuntary manslaughter. Snyder's offense was inaction. Translating that to, let's say, some form of accessory charge, feels awkward. BP and Exxon Valdez were both bigger, but the Flint disaster stands alone for its apparent callousness. Or arguably it doesn't, if you buy the argument that Trump did nothing at first because the coronavirus was hitting blue areas. TrickstaPriest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 15 hours ago, Lord Liaden said: Is that the limit in decorum for what we can imply might happen to people who tried to overthrow the American government? I guess I assumed the general sentiment would be less merciful. Personally, I'm still all for execution as a punishment for treason, if that makes you feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Almost everyone I've talked to in AZ who I know isn't a die hard liberal thinks that "well the capitol hill riots at least didn't burn any buildings down". Literally the concept of what happens when your democracy is violently taken away is a foreign concept to even my close friends here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/beeler-arrest-inauguration-checkpoint/2021/01/16/8597db24-5834-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html Quote Virginia man arrested at inauguration security checkpoint in possession of gun, 500 rounds ammo and non-government issued credential, police say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lectryk Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Pattern Ghost said: Personally, I'm still all for execution as a punishment for treason, if that makes you feel better. If it's any consolation - https://www.lawfareblog.com/felony-murder-and-storming-capitol Long article, but the section 'Felony Murder and the Deaths at the Capitol' is relevant, if you don't want to read the rest. the conclusion: 'In short, felony murder charges are definitely on the table for at least some of the people who stormed the Capitol. But it remains to be seen how broadly the rule can be applied to the rest.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 I was referring more to the treason charges for our elected officials who incited the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, TrickstaPriest said: Almost everyone I've talked to in AZ who I know isn't a die hard liberal thinks that "well the capitol hill riots at least didn't burn any buildings down". Literally the concept of what happens when your democracy is violently taken away is a foreign concept to even my close friends here "well the capitol hill riots at least didn't burn any buildings down" There's a couple of different ways that statement can be meant. I could say that and mean, "Considering that the Library of Congress and the Smithsonian were nearby and how anti-science these people are, it's a miracle none of these idiots thought of burning them down. Or they could have burned down the Supreme Court because the justices there didn't choose to overthrow the election." And I'll stand by that sentiment as being totally valid. Other people can say that and mean, "See? The Capitol Hill protests weren't very bad. With the BLM protests, they were burning down police stations and stores. We should have the right to free speech too if they're going to be doing things that bad." That's worlds apart in meaning. I think I've said something to this effect before but the best way to try to get through to people who don't understand how bad this was is to tell them that the buildings deliberately weren't burned down because they wanted to overthrow our democratic republic then move into the buildings which use to house that republic and pretend that nothing at all unusual had happened. If you preserve all the trappings of our democratic republic, the people in charge can stand for photo ops in front of those trappings and pretend that the people who in charge today are no different than the people who were in charge yesterday. It's tough to do that if they are instead standing in front of a burning pile of rubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 The utter thoughtlessness of so many of the rioters is simply stunning. NYT has another article on recent arrests...livestreamed on DLive (and boy, are they gonna have work to do to avoid being cut off from payment processing services) who used the nickname Baked Alaska. More like Half-Baked. Another was kind enough to proclaim "if you're looking for a realtor" and her name. Another posted numerous pics on IG, and numerous people who knew her sent tips. This was nothing but a big party to them. Mind-boggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, unclevlad said: This was nothing but a big party to them. Mind-boggling. The thing about parties that people forget is the cleanup afterward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lectryk Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Pattern Ghost said: I was referring more to the treason charges for our elected officials who incited the incident. Ah, excuse me, maybe I was projecting my need for accountability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, unclevlad said: The utter thoughtlessness of so many of the rioters is simply stunning. NYT has another article on recent arrests...livestreamed on DLive (and boy, are they gonna have work to do to avoid being cut off from payment processing services) who used the nickname Baked Alaska. More like Half-Baked. Another was kind enough to proclaim "if you're looking for a realtor" and her name. Another posted numerous pics on IG, and numerous people who knew her sent tips. This was nothing but a big party to them. Mind-boggling. I think it's partly the reality-show, social media mentality. The line between what's real and what's staged for effect has been deliberately blurred. Everything many people do now has to be made public for other people to comment on. Actions are being taken with the intent of getting views, likes, and retweets. unclevlad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.