Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Old Man 11,606]

4 hours ago, Lectryk said:

 

The people who were giving tours have a fig leaf - they were just showing constituents around, and 'I didn't know they would do what they did with the knowledge' (unless someone has been boneheaded enough to say something consistently enough to establish a pattern -

 

Just showing constituents around when all Capitol tours have been banned since March?  And I'd be interested to learn what percentage of "tourists" found themselves roaming around inside the Capitol again on January 6.

[Old Man 11,606]

Apologies for the biased source, but:

 

Don’t Prosecute Gotham’s Supervillains for Their Latest Scheme -- Any attempt to bring the Joker to justice is likely to fail or backfire

[Hugh Neilson 2,593]

If I were a lawyer litigating these cases (and I'm neither), I would look for the most serious charge I thought there was any chance of making stick (let's pick felony murder, on the basis that the death penalty is a possibility) and file on the basis that we will be seeking the absolute maximum penalty.  Then give those charged some time to let that sink in and talk to their own legal counsel.  My guess is that it's not likely, but not impossible, the death penalty could be applied.

 

Once a sufficient period of time has passed, offer a plea bargain.  Maybe it's a plea bargain to accept conviction on a charge less likely to succeed (maybe that is sedition) with a sentence at the more modest end of the spectrum, but still likely to be scary to anyone thinking about similar action in the future (let's say 5 years in prison).

 

Now, put yourself in the position of that fellow whose picture is all over the web showing he was there and engaged in illegal activity.  Do you throw the dice and risk a death sentence, or accept a 5 year sentence (knowing it could be more than 5 years to go through the Court process if you don't take the plea bargain)?

[Hugh Neilson 2,593]

10 hours ago, Pariah said:

I'm curious, why do these folks think that Donald Trump won't throw them under the bus the way he has with so many others?

 

‘I’m facing a prison sentence’: US Capitol rioters plead with Trump for pardons

 

This is the problem. When leaders are not held accountable, their followers don't think they should be either.

 

Looking at the article, I note:

 

THEN

 

Quote

 

“We’re gonna go down and storm the Capitol,” Ryan said in a video posted to Facebook. “They’re down there right now and that’s why we came and so that’s what we are going to do. So wish me luck.”

 

During a live Facebook video at the scene of the incursion, Ryan stated: “We are going to f***ing go in here. Life or death, it doesn’t matter. Here we go.”

 

She climbed the steps of the Capitol, then promoted her real estate business to camera: “Y’all know who to hire for your realtor. Jenna Ryan for your realtor.”

Later, Ryan posted on Twitter: “We just stormed the Capital [sic]. It was one of the best days of my life.”

 

 

NOW

 

Quote

 

“I’m facing a prison sentence,” she told CBS11 at her home. “I think I do not deserve that.”

 

Turning to look into the camera, she said: “I would ask the president of the United States to give me a pardon.”

 

 

So life or death didn't matter, but a prison sentence is excessive?

[Ragitsu 1,661]

42 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

So life or death didn't matter, but a prison sentence is excessive?

 

I don't know why they'd be so opposed to the proposition: prison worked great for Nelson Mandela (a major political symbol). Then again, Mandela is probably the last sort of person they would ever identify with.

[Lord Liaden 7,437]

58 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

So life or death didn't matter, but a prison sentence is excessive?

 

I think part of it, as I wrote earlier, is that they were treating the whole thing like a game, not seriously thinking about being killed. They were also caught up in the passion of the moment. Now they've cooled off, and reality is knocking very hard at their door. They were also part of a pack, and probably felt safety in their numbers. But each of them is facing these charges alone.

[csyphrett 995]

17 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/beeler-arrest-inauguration-checkpoint/2021/01/16/8597db24-5834-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

 

 

He was working security and was released. he still has a problem with having a weapon in the District, but he wasn't there to do anything but protect some of the set up from damage

CES

[Lord Liaden 7,437]

20 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

Who said anything about Russians?  Last I checked the Confederacy and Nazi Germany were formally declared enemies of the United States.  And I reckon participating in a direct attack on Congress might violate an armistice provision or two.  But, IANAL.

 

And those states no longer exist. The Confederacy was defeated and absorbed. The Third Reich was defeated and abolished, and a new constitution was the basis for the current German republic. Anyone claiming to represent either of them or act in their name has no legal standing, other than as private citizens.

[Pattern Ghost 2,675]

23 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

And those states no longer exist. The Confederacy was defeated and absorbed. The Third Reich was defeated and abolished, and a new constitution was the basis for the current German republic. Anyone claiming to represent either of them or act in their name has no legal standing, other than as private citizens.

 

You don't actually need a declared war to commit an act of war under the title. I think the real sticking point is intent. Since most of these upstanding citizens have a fuzzy idea of their own intent at best, that's probably hard to prove.

[TrickstaPriest 302]

 

[archer 2,020]

A simpler explanation: "these are the good guys" vs "the people who only think they're the good guys".

 

The best thing about the simpler explanation is that both sides to a large extent accept it as a valid explanation. 

[TrickstaPriest 302]

Unfortunately it's been less than two weeks and I already get more pushback about BLM and the Floyd protests than I do about the Capitol Hill riot among almost half the friends I have.

[unclevlad 803]

Song for Donald and Melania...

 

We're leavin' together
But still it's farewell
And maybe we'll come back
To Earth, who can tell?
I guess there is no one to blame
We're leaving ground (leaving ground)
Will things ever be the same again?

It's the final countdown
The final countdown

 

The Final Countdown by Europe.  Those of a certain age, you know you loved it too.

[csyphrett 995]

It has come out that Boebort (the food poisoning, court defying, guncarrying in a no gun zone, restaurant owner congresswoman who tweeted they were moving Pelosi around) also gave tours to insurrectionists the day before the riot. The FBI are like man, that's a big coincidence

CES

[Lord Liaden 7,437]

Looks like oil rises to the surface as readily as cream.

[BoloOfEarth 3,218]

"Scum."  I think the word you were looking for there is "scum."

 

Edit to add:  To clarify, the phrase I've heard is "Cream rises to the top.  So does scum."  I've never heard the phrase used with oil.

[archer 2,020]

On 1/17/2021 at 2:18 AM, Old Man said:

 

Just showing constituents around when all Capitol tours have been banned since March?  And I'd be interested to learn what percentage of "tourists" found themselves roaming around inside the Capitol again on January 6.

 

I'd be interested to know why people can go on a tour of the Capitol at all, at any time and for any purposes over the last 20 years, without signing in and showing matching ID so that there's a record of them showing up, leaving, who signed them in, and what entrances and exits they used.

[Ranxerox 613]

Finally Revealed, Fox News Wrongful Death Settlement For The Killing Of Seth Rich

[BNakagawa 160]

https://www.politicususa.com/2021/01/18/parler-hosted-in-russia.html?fbclid=IwAR0xy5PDWfzzadouJk0C0t-cOlx-7_haaq-EY3Bp0nPpy1OAYwjzRx2en3Q

 

Is anyone getting lots of comrade requests on Parler?

[Iuz the Evil 896]

27 minutes ago, BNakagawa said:

https://www.politicususa.com/2021/01/18/parler-hosted-in-russia.html?fbclid=IwAR0xy5PDWfzzadouJk0C0t-cOlx-7_haaq-EY3Bp0nPpy1OAYwjzRx2en3Q

 

Is anyone getting lots of comrade requests on Parler?

Yikes, that’s really problematic for our surveillance of various radical factions I suspect.

[TrickstaPriest 302]

52 minutes ago, Iuz the Evil said:

Yikes, that’s really problematic for our surveillance of various radical factions I suspect.

 

Pretty interesting that it's Russia that's stepped in.  I was only half-in-the-pool of them being closely involved (deniable but possible), but that pretty much clinches it for me.

 

Hey now it's the US that's the subject of proxy wars of foreign countries!  yaayy... 😕

[Lord Liaden 7,437]

I'm going to love watching how any self-proclaimed American patriot using Parler rationalizes this.

 

BTW I hear all the Americans pronouncing this social medium's name, "parlur," which sounds really cute to me, because "parler" is a French word, pronounced "par-LAY," literally the verb, "to speak."

[Starlord 5,279]

48 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I'm going to love watching how any self-proclaimed American patriot using Parler rationalizes this.

 

BTW I hear all the Americans pronouncing this social medium's name, "parlur," which sounds really cute to me, because "parler" is a French word, pronounced "par-LAY," literally the verb, "to speak."

 

I think they were going off of 'parlour' or 'parlor' - which is a meeting or reception room often for conversation, i.e. beauty parlor or funeral parlor.

 

Meanwhile....

 

Confused users in search of Parler push the app 'Parlor' to top of app store charts

[Old Man 11,606]

5 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

I think they were going off of 'parlour' or 'parlor' - which is a meeting or reception room often for conversation, i.e. beauty parlor or funeral parlor.

 

Meanwhile....

 

Confused users in search of Parler push the app 'Parlor' to top of app store charts

What’s funny is that the less confused Parler users are switching to Signal. The other funny thing is that Signal tells you if someone in your contacts list signs up for Signal. I’ve gotten a few of those in the past week. Hmm. 

[DShomshak 1,844]

23 hours ago, csyphrett said:

It has come out that Boebort (the food poisoning, court defying, guncarrying in a no gun zone, restaurant owner congresswoman who tweeted they were moving Pelosi around) also gave tours to insurrectionists the day before the riot. The FBI are like man, that's a big coincidence

CES

I'd like to read more about this. Source, link, please? (Yes, I can Google, but my service is real slow.)

 

Dean Shomshak