Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[unclevlad]

Canada has designated the Proud Boys as a terrorist organization.

 

Elsewhere, Fox had a bad month:

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/january-2021-ratings-fox-news-closes-month-strong-in-prime-time-but-falls-to-3rd-for-first-time-since-2001/469813/

 

So perhaps there's hope that some fraction is rejecting the narrative.  Many aren't;  we know that.  But perhaps it's a start.

[Lord Liaden]

Unfortunately, some strains of populism and distrust of authority have leaked over the Canada-US border, although only a small fringe have embraced them wholeheartedly. Even more unfortunately, certain politicians are playing with those strains to benefit their own agendas.

[Pariah]

Sadly, that's what politicians do. There's no quicker path to 'leadership' than to find a crowd who's going somewhere and start walking in front of them.

[archer]

8 minutes ago, Pariah said:

Sadly, that's what politicians do. There's no quicker path to 'leadership' than to find a crowd who's going somewhere and start walking in front of them.

 

The joke about Bill Clinton when he was being groomed by the party to run for president is that he looked for parades so that he could run to the front and pretend he was leading them.

[archer]

DOJ considering using the RICO statute against Capitol Hill rioters.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-capitol-rico-exclusive/exclusive-u-s-mulls-using-law-designed-to-prosecute-mafia-against-capitol-rioters-idUSKBN2A32W2

 

I am not a fan of RICO. It's been used for extra-judicial punishment often in the past, such as seizing someone's bank accounts and property, then holding the accounts and property for several years, then choosing not to charge the person with any crime plus refusing to return any seized money or property. Often, the property has already been sold at government auction long before the prosecutors decide what to do with the case.

 

Sometimes the target has hired a lawyer then the government has gone after the law firm under the theory that they've "accepted proceeds from criminal activities" because the accused are criminals and the lawyers were being paid rather than working pro bono.

 

There's been blockbuster media articles going back at least to the 1970's about all the slimy abusive practices the government has done using RICO in the name of going after "racketeering".

 

But going by the letter of the law, what these accused people have done is racketeering. I don't see a valid excuse for not using RICO.

[Pattern Ghost]

Seems like an overly broad application of RICO. We don't want RICO turning into the next Interstate Commerce Clause.

[TrickstaPriest]

RICO might fit for someone like Fuentes, who was bussing people down to the location (while sharing about how much he wants to "give flight attendants a handshake" and "no one can touch people in Congress.  I mean, other than killing them.  Oh no, I'm just joking about that." )

[unclevlad]

Yah, I can see RICO for the facilitators who made darn sure to stay away from DC themselves.

 

Smartmatic has filed a $2.7B lawsuit against Fox for defamation.  Unfortunately this is going to likely take a long time to fully play out.

[TrickstaPriest]

4 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

Smartmatic has filed a $2.7B lawsuit against Fox for defamation.  Unfortunately this is going to likely take a long time to fully play out.

 

We are going to hear about this 'silencing conservative voices' soon.

[Old Man]

16 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

We are going to hear about this 'silencing conservative voices' soon.

 

If conservative voices don't want to be silenced, perhaps they should not voice threats, level unsubstantiated accusations, sympathize with declared enemies of the United States, or advocate sedition.  But that's just my voice.

[unclevlad]

11 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

We are going to hear about this 'silencing conservative voices' soon.

 

We already did, somewhat.  Mike Lindell on NewsMax.  But I don't think you'll hear it from the bigger players, because their lawyers aren't idiots.  One of the big mistakes was asserting that the machines were tampered with...in areas where they weren't even in use.  Continuing to assert malfeasance on the part of Dominion or Smartmatic when the courts already ruled against such, is another.  Sure, the hard-core believers will eat it up, but the courts won't.  Fox's lawyers are well aware of this, and they're VERY worried, I gotta think.

[DShomshak]

13 hours ago, archer said:

There's been blockbuster media articles going back at least to the 1970's about all the slimy abusive practices the government has done using RICO in the name of going after "racketeering".

 

I particularly remember an All Things Considered story about police departments and prosecutors' offices using RICO to confiscate assets from "suspected" (i.e., generally known) organized crime figures... but never enough to actually put them out of business... and never actually getting around to the prosecution. It looks an awful lot like the Mob paying protection to the government, as part of the cost of doing business. But hey, every dollar collected from the Mob is a dollar you don't have to collect from resentful taxpayers, right? Nobody's about to wreck this particular sweetheart deal.

 

Still, I admit I would love to see RICO used against well-heeled white supremacists such as Richard Spencer and Steve Bannon.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Duke Bushido]

Okay, preface:

 

You guys know I don't read this thread.  

 

I know it's technically safe for anything that might be remotely considered political.

 

I don't know if this is political, and I really have to get it off my chest, and just in case it is (I really feel it's more a social issue, but too many people can't tell the difference, so why take the chance?), I'm going to say it here.

 

 

The thing I can't shake:

 

You know I've been grounded from both jobs because my wife has the -itis.  I have had precious little to do (outside of caring for her; kids are with family) except stay abreast of the fallout from the 1/6 "thing."  I say "thing" because we can't seem to decide if this act of terrorism is  actually terrorism, organized crime, or a big misunderstanding.  (I mean; we _can_; we just can't get anyone in charge of putting together a case to decide it).

 

After a nearly two weeks of following the news, I am ready to lead a crowd-funding drive to go ahead and make the Jewish Space Laser a reality and just _give it_ to them.  Let them have fun with it.  It couldn't possibly end worse than this is going right now.

 

Thanks, folks.

[TrickstaPriest]

2 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

You know I've been grounded from both jobs because my wife has the -itis.  I have had precious little to do (outside of caring for her; kids are with family) except stay abreast of the fallout from the 1/6 "thing."  I say "thing" because we can't seem to decide if this act of terrorism is  actually terrorism, organized crime, or a big misunderstanding.  (I mean; we _can_; we just can't get anyone in charge of putting together a case to decide it).

 

After a nearly two weeks of following the news, I am ready to lead a crowd-funding drive to go ahead and make the Jewish Space Laser a reality and just _give it_ to them.  Let them have fun with it.  It couldn't possibly end worse than this is going right now.

 

 

I know.  This is literally the scenario I'd have to expect based on the attempt fizzling out so quickly.  Which means in the next ten years there'll be more attempts, and possibly a success...

 

edit:  Going to be a busy few years for the FBI >_>

[archer]

1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

Okay, preface:

 

You guys know I don't read this thread.  

 

I know it's technically safe for anything that might be remotely considered political.

 

I don't know if this is political, and I really have to get it off my chest, and just in case it is (I really feel it's more a social issue, but too many people can't tell the difference, so why take the chance?), I'm going to say it here.

 

 

The thing I can't shake:

 

You know I've been grounded from both jobs because my wife has the -itis.  I have had precious little to do (outside of caring for her; kids are with family) except stay abreast of the fallout from the 1/6 "thing."  I say "thing" because we can't seem to decide if this act of terrorism is  actually terrorism, organized crime, or a big misunderstanding.  (I mean; we _can_; we just can't get anyone in charge of putting together a case to decide it).

 

After a nearly two weeks of following the news, I am ready to lead a crowd-funding drive to go ahead and make the Jewish Space Laser a reality and just _give it_ to them.  Let them have fun with it.  It couldn't possibly end worse than this is going right now.

 

Thanks, folks.

 

But, but only YOU can prevent forest fires...and you want to give them a Jewish Space Laser!!??

[Lord Liaden]

Political insanity never really goes away, but it rises and falls in waves. There's very little here that the world hasn't seen before, repeatedly. Right now we're hanging ten on a swell, which may or may not have crested, but it will subside. The energy can't be sustained indefinitely. In the meantime t'll take work to keep from falling off, but we can ride this out. We did it before, and our parents and grandparents did it.

[unclevlad]

40 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Political insanity never really goes away, but it rises and falls in waves. There's very little here that the world hasn't seen before, repeatedly. Right now we're hanging ten on a swell, which may or may not have crested, but it will subside. The energy can't be sustained indefinitely. In the meantime t'll take work to keep from falling off, but we can ride this out. We did it before, and our parents and grandparents did it.

 

A difference, tho, is the impact of near-ubiquitous, near-instant communications.  Where once anger tended to be restricted/encapsulated, now it can be shared.  It isn't restrained by time or distance.  It's continuously fed by propagandists masquerading as journalists.  Sure, it's quite possible that QAnon will vanish back into the toxic swamp they rose from...but the conditions that created them haven't changed *that* much.  No, we don't have Trump, but he enabled and legitimized that aspect...as they enabled and legitimized him.

 

So, yeah, OK, it might subside, but it'll still be there.  It'll still be pushing buttons at every opportunity, and waiting for its next chance.  The next 2 years are huge.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Yeah, I don't know. America seems pretty sane right now compared with the McCarthy era. So far, no-one's been fired, no-one's been executed, and, well, there were journalists at MacArthur's rally on the Mall who honestly thought that if the General had been willing to give the word, the crowd would have sacked the White House. It's amazing how things that embarrassed the press get forgotten. We remember McCarthy's every misstep and the outrages of the HUAC, but not the mass hysteria stirred up by MacArthur, or the way that the Republican establishment tried to ride on McCarthy's coat-tails in the 1950 and 1952 elections. The fact is that Trumpism does not exactly look like a winning ticket right now. 

 

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, Lawnmower Boy said:

The fact is that Trumpism does not exactly look like a winning ticket right now.

 

That depends on the game.  If the game is U.S. elections, it just lost a game.  If the game is U.S. elections with lots of rulebending (e.g. gerrymandering and voter suppression), then it's competitive in 2022.  If the game is Calvinball with guns, all bets are off.

[unclevlad]

Plus, let's not forget that election procedures are defined on a state-by-state basis, by the state legislators.  Maintaining the whole "the election was stolen!" storyline may well resonate, and above and beyond the near-foregone gerrymandering continuing, figure there will be more moves made to make voting more difficult.  And there are numerous states where it's likely to work.

[archer]

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Political insanity never really goes away, but it rises and falls in waves. There's very little here that the world hasn't seen before, repeatedly. Right now we're hanging ten on a swell, which may or may not have crested, but it will subside. The energy can't be sustained indefinitely. In the meantime t'll take work to keep from falling off, but we can ride this out. We did it before, and our parents and grandparents did it.

 

In late 2015 to early 2016, I looked at Peron in Argentina and the rise of the Peronistas then started predicting that it would take at least 80 years to put down Trumpism if the Republicans were stupid enough to put him in office.

 

From what I can see in US politics, I still stand by that prediction.

[wcw43921]

David Hogg To Compete With MyPillow

 

Part of me is hoping he succeeds, but honestly--who pays forty to fifty bucks for a pillow?

[Lord Liaden]

I just feel sorry for Mike Lindell's employees. The don't deserve to have their jobs flushed down the toilet because Lindell chose to fllush his reputation.

[Starlord]

I thought this was a fascinating and really intelligent take on what Trump is really like (confirmed a lot of what I thought already) if anyone is interested:

 

 

[unclevlad]

8 hours ago, wcw43921 said:

David Hogg To Compete With MyPillow

 

Part of me is hoping he succeeds, but honestly--who pays forty to fifty bucks for a pillow?

 

Probably more people than you might think.  That's mid-level.  When I bought cheap pillows, they didn't last more than a couple years.  A better one lasts much longer.  How many people spend $1000-2000 on a mattress?  Same thing...more than you might think.

 

EDIT:  As far as the MyPillow employees...yeah, I'd be job-hunting.  Looks like the company's privately held, so a board can't oust Lindell.  And this bad publicity is atop quite a bit more:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Pillow

 

Several false advertising/false claims lawsuits.  Failure to remit taxes.  BBB gives them an F rating.  Consumer Reports reviewed them and only 1/3 of their in-home testers would buy them...that's a big argument right there for why Kohl's and BedBathAndBeyond dropped them...because that suggests they aren't gonna sell very well long term, and/or that the store's going to see a higher return rate.  (Spend a moment on BB&B's web site...over 300 different pillows, and most are over $50.)