archer Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Lou Dobbs Show abruptly cancelled mid-week on Fox Business Channel despite being its highest rated show and re-runs of the show being aired daily. The program had been focused heavily on the "stolen" election and the "unconstitutional" impeachment trial. https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/06/media/lou-dobbs-fox-news-last-show/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 One challenge is that it is still "free speech" when it expresses opinions I do not agree with. The adage of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is well-known, and incitement to riot or hate speech is similarly either "beyond free speech" or at least an essential limit, but stifling the ability of others to express opinions contrary to our own is not morally superior to others stifling our ability to express our own opinions, or others to express opinions we disagree with. A university professor some years back attracted attention when he told his freshmen class that living in a free democracy meant that they did not have the right to not be offended. Unfortunately, it can be tough to differentiate "use of free speech" from "active trolling" or even "denying others' free speech". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 "Free Speech" does not mean "Freedom From Consequences" though. Hugh Neilson and Lawnmower Boy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Senator Sasse on Thursday Starlord, Pariah, Lord Liaden and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: One challenge is that it is still "free speech" when it expresses opinions I do not agree with. The adage of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is well-known, and incitement to riot or hate speech is similarly either "beyond free speech" or at least an essential limit, but stifling the ability of others to express opinions contrary to our own is not morally superior to others stifling our ability to express our own opinions, or others to express opinions we disagree with. A university professor some years back attracted attention when he told his freshmen class that living in a free democracy meant that they did not have the right to not be offended. Unfortunately, it can be tough to differentiate "use of free speech" from "active trolling" or even "denying others' free speech". You are familiar with the tolerance paradox....yes? The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance. Lord Liaden, BarretWallace, Matt the Bruins and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 5 hours ago, archer said: Lou Dobbs Show abruptly cancelled mid-week on Fox Business Channel despite being its highest rated show and re-runs of the show being aired daily. The program had been focused heavily on the "stolen" election and the "unconstitutional" impeachment trial. https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/06/media/lou-dobbs-fox-news-last-show/index.html The word is he is getting sued by the voting machine companies. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Cygnia said: "Free Speech" does not mean "Freedom From Consequences" though. It also doesn't mean that any media outlet is required to give everyone a platform for their speech. The First Amendment only applies to government repression of speech. Fox News is a business that has to sell itself to survive. Their management has every right to cancel any program they believe threatens their business. 15 minutes ago, csyphrett said: The word is he is getting sued by the voting machine companies. CES This is proving to be the only way to get contemporary media and public figures to consider the consequences of their actions. Hit them in their wallets. Iuz the Evil, Lee, Hugh Neilson and 3 others 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: It also doesn't mean that any media outlet is required to give everyone a platform for their speech. The First Amendment only applies to government repression of speech. Fox News is a business that has to sell itself to survive. Their management has every right to cancel any program they believe threatens their business. To quote the late, great Constitutional scholar, Trace Adkins: "First Amendment? The First Amendment protects you from the government, not from me." Iuz the Evil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 22 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: This is proving to be the only way to get contemporary media and public figures to consider the consequences of their actions. Hit them in their wallets. Pretty much. We will need legendary, biting lawsuits just to get us back to norms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, Simon said: To quote the late, great Constitutional scholar, Trace Adkins... Trace Adkins died?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Lord Liaden said: Trace Adkins died?! Not to my knowledge...but it adds a bit of gravitas to the statement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Yah, this isn't a free speech issue. Dobbs (among others) asserted that the products and services of Dominion and Smartmatic were unreliable. That becomes defamation. Free speech would cover the accusations of improprieties at polling places, for example, but do not permit this type of speech. Also: some types of trolling are not protected. Smear posts like "this place is a ripoff, they'll take your money and disappear" are actionable...if you can find the poster. Individual, isolated smear posts tend to have minimal impact, but in other cases it's a severe problem that has ruined businesses. Heck yeah, that's actionable. The allegations against Dominion and Smartmatic immediately rose to actionable because of the reach of the medium (Fox) to millions of people. Now add that it got repeated ad nauseum. NOW, add in that: a) it was asserted in places where those machines weren't in use, or were in minimal use and therefore couldn't have been the issue b) the courts threw out all the allegations, but the assertions continue. This goes beyond opinion. In the very early stages, possibly a retraction would've been sufficient. That stopped being adequate a LONG time ago. The case for Dominion/Smartmatic is beyond a smoking gun. It's as if Timothy McVeigh had recorded making the bomb, driving to the Murrah building, walking away to a safe distance, then smiling into the camera as he goes "now watch this!!" This is why NewsMax cut off Lindell's rant, why Dobbs was canned, why Guiliani's broadcasters inserted a disclaimer during his own podcast...without telling him they were gonna do it. Fox News will probably survive even a 10-digit judgment; NewsMax might not survive a much smaller judgment. And yeah, as Simon pointed out: the First Amendment is asserted *all* the time in wildly inaccurate ways. Probably not possible in practice, but requiring some basic understanding of civil liberties as an actual requirement to vote is worth considering, IMO. The problem is, of course, what you would require on such an examination. One of the better, introductory, basic classes I took in high school was a common law course. I think a one-year, required-to-graduate class covering common law, basic rights (and what they don't cover), and the fundamentals of money management would be a Very Good Thing. Hugh Neilson, DShomshak, TrickstaPriest and 2 others 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, unclevlad said: One of the better, introductory, basic classes I took in high school was a common law course. I think a one-year, required-to-graduate class covering common law, basic rights (and what they don't cover), and the fundamentals of money management would be a Very Good Thing. This. A thousand times this. We graduate students based on their memorization of dates of European history; their ability to quote the works of Shakespeare; their performance of calculus; their ability to carve up a frog and pin down its digestive system. But they can't budget for their household expenses; comprehend the impact of credit card debt; fill out a tax return; understand the lease or bank loan agreement; read their employment contract. If the education system does not produce graduates capable of functioning in modern society, then it has failed. And, at least in North America, it seems quite clear that it HAS failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Except it's not calculus...geometry and algebra is what's on the sample GED. Sometimes there's analyitical but it's just algebra and geometry. And I'm not sure what GED-level reading would be...but it ain't Shakespeare. And the rates at which Texas students can't pass the standard tests is truly alarming. I only pick Texas because I'm aware that they have such a test; I'm not trying to say anything about their educational system. TrickstaPriest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Yeah. A lot of what was said in 'high school' is only for people in special advanced courses as far as I know. I had such a thing in Canada, but I was basically taking first term college courses in HS (called OAC). Basics are important, but right now even basic writing and mathematics seem to be in dismal condition. Stuff like history and certain arts are important for contextual reasons if nothing else, but obviously aren't taught like that. Plus some things, like arts, music, you only really can get started early otherwise you may never actually develop the core traits to do them. (ex- I really wish I got any kind of music learning early, it actually doesn't develop much if you try and do it late) So if you don't offer anything in them, you'll basically see them disappear. That being said, I wish my 'home ec' class was on taxes and budgeting and related skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 I considered adding basic food instruction...simple cooking, nutrition, etc. but that's gonna never fly as a graduation requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 I do recall instruction in the basics of civics, including the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and government functions, in my regular 9th grade Social Studies class. Which was a basic requirement for all students not exempted by Special Ed classes—in the Deep South, no less. Mind you that was 35 years ago so there's no telling how much useful information has been scrubbed from the curriculum in favor of native genocide apologia and celebration of Texas frontier heroes in the intervening generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 18 hours ago, Simon said: To quote the late, great Constitutional scholar, Trace Adkins: "First Amendment? The First Amendment protects you from the government, not from me." 18 hours ago, Lord Liaden said: Trace Adkins died?! 18 hours ago, Simon said: Not to my knowledge...but it adds a bit of gravitas to the statement He's not dead, but he's not on time either. Cancer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Hardly a week after submitting a legal brief for Trump’s looming Senate impeachment trial that misspelled the words “United States,” they made exactly the same blunder again on Monday in the pre-trial brief laying out their defense. The 78-page brief referred to the country Trump used to lead as the “Unites States” on page 7. While falling short of perfect, the misstep still marked something of an improvement from their last go, when the team screwed up the name of the country twice, including on the first page. https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgzk3z/trumps-crack-impeachment-lawyers-misspelled-united-statesagain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Rep. Ron Wright (R-Texas) died on Sunday evening after testing positive for COVID-19 late last month. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/537798-rep-ron-wright-dies-after-contracting-covid-19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 “I’m opposed to mandates period. I don’t think they work. People in Florida wear (masks) when they go out. They don’t have to be strung up by a bayonet to do it.” - Governor DeSantis of Florida "Maybe someone needs to tell DeSantis that you don't string up people with bayonets." - People who don't live in Florida csyphrett and aylwin13 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 35 minutes ago, archer said: “I’m opposed to mandates period. I don’t think they work. People in Florida wear (masks) when they go out. They don’t have to be strung up by a bayonet to do it.” - Governor DeSantis of Florida "Maybe someone needs to tell DeSantis that you don't string up people with bayonets." - People who don't live in Florida "Strung up by a bayonet?" I'm not sure what he's talking about. Maybe it's some kind of weird autoerotic thing...? (Not that I'm kink-shaming. I'm not here to tell you how to live your life.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Masks, bondage, erotic asphyxiation, sure. It’s the bayonet kink I don’t understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Lots of people don't understand their own kink. But I would guess Gov. DeSantis meant something like, "at bayonet point," an image of armed compulsion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 7:20 PM, Simon said: To quote the late, great Constitutional scholar, Trace Adkins: "First Amendment? The First Amendment protects you from the government, not from me." This is the Country and Western singer, yes ? I do not know the music but he has appeared on Jimmy Kimmel's Mean Tweets segments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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