Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Well... From a certain point of view, it could be argued that the riot wasn't a serious attempt to overthrow the government. More of a LARP that got way out of hand. I mean, for all the huffing and puffing beforehand about "war!" and "burning the city to ash!" they didn't bring serious weapons. Where were the AR-15s?

 

The AR-15s were ten minutes away with the Oath Keepers' QRF: (link to DOJ indictment)

 

Quote

The subsequent day, Watkins exchanged textual content messages with Co-defendant Thomas Caldwell concerning the operational plans for January 6, 2021.  This included coordinating about the place and when to satisfy and the place to remain. Operational plans additionally contemplated the possession and use of weapons in D.C. earlier than and on January 6. Caldwell referenced “a quick reaction force [QRF] [that would be]bringing the tools if something goes to hell. That way the boys don’t have to try to schelp weps on the bus.” Watkins beforehand said that the QRF offered prepared entry to weapons throughout operations. As she defined to a contact when making ready to attend a November election fraud rally in Washington D.C., QRF was designed in order that “If it gets bad, they QRF to us with weapons for us,” however that, in any other case, “[w]e can have mace, tasers, or night sticks. QRF staged, armed, with our weapons, outside the city” and suggested “to be prepared to fight hand to hand” whereas “guys outside DC with guns, await orders to enter DC under permission from  Trump, not a minute sooner.”

 

In the end, of course, the insurrectionists didn't need guns to overrun the Capitol, kill and injure dozens of cops, and successfully delay the peaceful transfer of government.  There is no question that the riot was a premeditated attempt to overthrow the government.  None.  It is not possible to consider all the evidence--the planning by militias starting months in advance, the reconnaissance tours of the Capitol, the appointment of a Secretary of Defense who deliberately disarmed the D.C. National Guard and then managed to be in Bahrain on Jan. 6, the White House meetings with Oath Keeper and Proud Boy leaders--and conclude otherwise.  I'm sure some of the insurrectionists just went along with the mob.  But lots and lots of them planned the attack in advance.

 

I get why people just want to believe it was just something that "got out of hand".  But honestly people need to realize what almost happened sixty days ago, and realize that it could just as easily happen again.

 

Everyone should read the indictment by the way, it starts getting interesting by page 6.

[Lord Liaden]

On 3/2/2021 at 12:35 PM, Pariah said:

Golden Trump statue at CPAC 2021 was no graven image, according to the artist

 

 

Another interesting fact from the article: the statue was made in Mexico.

 

The sculptor has confirmed the statement from his business partner that the statue was actually manufactured in China. A rather embarrassing bit of irony.

 

It's almost breathtaking how thoroughly the truth is eradicated by contact with Donald Trump.

[Pariah]

I probably said this or something like it before, but Donald Trump and his followers can't find the truth for the same reason a thief can't find a policeman.

[DShomshak]

12 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

The AR-15s were ten minutes away with the Oath Keepers' QRF: (link to DOJ indictment)

 

Ah: The news stories I've seen didn't mention that yes, there were automatic weapons ready to use. We can only be grateful these were amateurs at political violence. I have never doubted the insurrectionists' intent, only whether they were sufficiently in touch with reality to make a plausible attempt.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Hugh Neilson]

15 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Well... From a certain point of view, it could be argued that the riot wasn't a serious attempt to overthrow the government. More of a LARP that got way out of hand. I mean, for all the huffing and puffing beforehand about "war!" and "burning the city to ash!" they didn't bring serious weapons. Where were the AR-15s? Revolutionaries who were really bent on revolution could have shot their way in a lot more quickly, I would think, and perhaps slaughtered numerous members of Congress. I can only be thankful that the organizers and participants were so lost in fantasy that they didn't know how the pros do political violence.

 

Let us hope that all the judges take it seriously, though, since there's a historical record of half-assed nutbars getting more effective with practice.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

The other question, to me, is his claim that he is being singled out, not due to the relative severity of any crimes he has committed, but because of his visibility.  What is the status of the hundreds of other participants?  Are they also incarcerated pending hearings?  If not, how are they different, to justify different treatment.

 

Everyone is entitled to equality before the law, are they not?

[Lectryk]

24 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

The other question, to me, is his claim that he is being singled out, not due to the relative severity of any crimes he has committed, but because of his visibility.  What is the status of the hundreds of other participants?  Are they also incarcerated pending hearings?  If not, how are they different, to justify different treatment.

 

Everyone is entitled to equality before the law, are they not?

 

Personally, I agree with Pariah's point.  To yours though, the story doesn't say if the other accused  seen before Judge Cooper have gone home early and it doesn't say what those who were released were actually charged with - they could have been charged with lesser offenses, in the aggregate.  If they really did 'worse things' than Barnett, then I can see a plea bargain involving him providing evidence against these people in his future.  

 

I'd also want to know Federal guidelines for holding til trial - judges do have leeway.  And in this case the word 'normally' used by his defense attorney indicates to me that the hold falls within discretion.  It would be harsher language if his attorney felt his client was wrongfully being held.  

  

Archer - he was very lucky.  It doesn't matter if the outburst is directed at the judge or not - simply being disruptive in a court setting can lead to contempt charges; in this case, that's just a cherry on the top kind of thing, but still...

 

 

 

 

[Pattern Ghost]

2 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

If not, how are they different, to justify different treatment.

 

My first question is: Is his claim of different treatment accurate?

[Matt the Bruins]

At the very least there's more hard evidence placing him inside Congress during the insurrection than anyone else except the participants who left corpses behind and that Q-shaman guy. It's probably best not to smile and pose for the camera in the midst of attempting to overthrow the government.

[TrickstaPriest]

Fun times 😕

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/03/06/kyrsten-sinema-minimum-wage-vote-sot-vpx-ebof.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

My first question is: Is his claim of different treatment accurate?

 

It is.  However:

 

Quote

“They’re dragging this out!” he hollered. “They’re letting everybody else out!”

After a brief recess to calm the defendant down, Judge Cooper resumed the hearing, saying he would consider a new motion for release if and when Mr. Barnett’s lawyers filed one.

 

 

So perhaps it's not the court's fault he's being treated differently.

 

I understand he may have secured new legal representation since the tantrum.

[archer]

1 hour ago, TrickstaPriest said:

Fun times 😕

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/03/06/kyrsten-sinema-minimum-wage-vote-sot-vpx-ebof.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/

 

One of the fun things about the Bernie Sanders bill to increase the minimum wage:

 

The person running the Senate forgot to close the vote on the bill before going on to new business. So the vote on Bernie's bill broke an all-time record for how long the vote was held open for it at over 9 hours total before they realized their mistake and closed the window for voting (or changing your vote).

 

 

[Hugh Neilson]

2 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

My first question is: Is his claim of different treatment accurate?

 

That is the big question to me as well.

 

1 hour ago, Matt the Bruins said:

At the very least there's more hard evidence placing him inside Congress during the insurrection than anyone else except the participants who left corpses behind and that Q-shaman guy. It's probably best not to smile and pose for the camera in the midst of attempting to overthrow the government.

 

Given the volume of pictures online, and the security in the locations in question, I find it hard to believe the others charged are tough to clearly place at the scene.

 

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

 

It is.  However:

 

So perhaps it's not the court's fault he's being treated differently.

 

I understand he may have secured new legal representation since the tantrum.

 

It's entirely possible his legal counsel is at fault.  That, at least, would explain the difference.  That makes the question more one of access to justice, but the impact of the complexities of the law, and legal process, is a much broader issue.

 

[Starlord]

[wcw43921]

Qanon Shaman To Remain In Custody Pending Trial

[Cygnia]

Kelly Loeffler Just Lost Her WNBA Team to a Player She Refused to Meet

[unclevlad]

12 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Kelly Loeffler Just Lost Her WNBA Team to a Player She Refused to Meet

 

So, she's had 2 Dreams shattered so far this year...

 

Gosh, don't ya just feel terrible for her?

[aylwin13]

20 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

So, she's had 2 Dreams shattered so far this year...

 

Gosh, don't ya just feel terrible for her?

Yadda, Yadda, karma, yadda, yadda. 😊 

[csyphrett]

They looked at Loeffler for Insider Trading. She can afford to lose her basketball team

CES

[DShomshak]

Today's episode of the NYTimes radio program/podcast, The Daily, interviewed a Capitol Police officer who was caught in the insurrection. Terrifying stuff.

 

He wasn't willing to criticize his superiors for the guidance he and his fellow officers received, or didn't. Made it clear he would only discuss his own experiences. Probably prudent.

 

I was more interested in why he didn't use the rifle he carried. His anguish at the choice he faced is raw and undeniable. He wasn't willing to second-guess, so I won't either.

 

Dean Shomshak

[archer]

The Wal-Mart where my daughter works announced to their employees that the store is going to 100% self-checkout, which means one cashier per 6-8 registers rather than one cashier per register.

 

The company line is that they're not going to lay anyone off. But in the past the way that it works is that the management gets really picky about everything and fires people for the slightest excuse rather than doing one large wave of firings which might cause bad publicity for the company.

 

Pretty obvious that the management thinks the $15 minimum wage will become law because they're not waiting until it's passed to start downsizing the staff.

 

No union, right-to-work state which means anyone can be fired for any reason or no reason. The only limit is that the company can't appear to be firing in mass surges which would attract media attention and negative publicity.

 

For the record, I detest self-checkout. I have limited fine manipulation skills. By the time I finish a shopping trip, I really can't depend on my hands working enough to open-and-bag my purchases.

[unclevlad]

I do self-checkout most of the time, but I wouldn't want to see cashier checkout completely eliminated.  The checkout machines' reliability is poor.  Self-checkout can't be streamlined, with stages operating in parallel...unload the cart, scan, and bag steps are all by the same person.  Handling such things as booze, or in-store discounts require employee intervention and verification.

 

But...it wouldn't surprise me that Wal-Mart moves largely in this direction.  Heck, their checkout policy seems to be, if there's less than 3 people in any line...close a line, there's too many checkout lines open.  It's always felt like you pay for their low prices in part, by transferring some of the burden onto the shopper...like, checkout being more onerous.

[Pariah]

There are times when self-checkout is fine and times when I want a cashier/checker to help me. But my family has moved almost exclusively to curbside pickup over the past year. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been inside a store since last March.

[Cygnia]

Oklahoma House Passes Bill To Give Immunity To Drivers Who Hit Protesters

[Old Man]

Sounds like Oklahoma all right. 

[Pariah]

But it'll only apply in the half of the state that isn't Native lands, right?