Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[unclevlad]

What is so insane to me is no matter how absurd or outlandish...ok, MAYBE some of their followers don't buy that one but it raises basically no flags about everything else they say.

 

 

[Hermit]

How can the State Govt of Tennessee, make other states look saner than us?

I KNOW, let's threaten to disband the department of Health because they're promoting the vaccine to teenagers

 

 

I feel the need to apologize to Florida

 

[TrickstaPriest]

3 hours ago, Hermit said:

How can the State Govt of Tennessee, make other states look saner than us?

I KNOW, let's threaten to disband the department of Health because they're promoting the vaccine to teenagers

 

 

I feel the need to apologize to Florida

 

 

 

 

Just skim the comments threads.

[unclevlad]

The comments thread shows this country is a lost cause.

[TrickstaPriest]

deleted my line.

This isn't going away, and I'm honestly expecting a lot more violence.  And a lot, lot more religiously/politically motivated actions, and more public voices encouraging it.

 

😕

 

We, the rest of the public, have to start thinking about what kind of positive (and hopefully de-escalating) things that have to be done to deal with this.

[Cygnia]

[Hermit]

11 hours ago, unclevlad said:

The comments thread shows this country is a lost cause.

 

They break my heart.

[Cygnia]

Trump Wanted His Justice Department to Stop ‘SNL’ From Teasing Him

[Hermit]

2 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Trump Wanted His Justice Department to Stop ‘SNL’ From Teasing Him

 

Grow a backbone, you mango hued snowflake! 

You've got the material in those extra bone spurs!

 

I'm sorry, that.. that just slipped

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Unless we address our societal issues, things will only continue to get worse. Sadly, the country appears to have lost the will for meaningful change.

[unclevlad]

19 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

Unless we address our societal issues, things will only continue to get worse. Sadly, the country appears to have lost the will for meaningful change.

 

Not lost the will.  Multiple factors in play:

 

--any change is in a zero-sum game...so if you win, I lose.

--"If you're not first, you're last."  Ricky Bobby.  Or I suspect, the inspiration:  Dale Earnhardt and "Second place is first loser."  How about "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."  That's Vince Lombardi...still THE Coaching God, with all due respect to Belichick or even Wooden.

 

NOT a good combination.  It devolves to "I'm for any change that helps me!"  But it's impossible to have a meaningful change that doesn't have some downsides.  So, real change is extremely difficult to manifest until it's clear that without that change, EVERYONE loses.  Even then, there will be objectors...c.f. the current pandemic...where some view a greater opportunity by denying the situation.  It's particularly ugly in that Fox has proven just how successful that approach can be.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

3 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Not lost the will.  Multiple factors in play:

 

--any change is in a zero-sum game...so if you win, I lose.

--"If you're not first, you're last."  Ricky Bobby.  Or I suspect, the inspiration:  Dale Earnhardt and "Second place is first loser."  How about "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."  That's Vince Lombardi...still THE Coaching God, with all due respect to Belichick or even Wooden.

 

NOT a good combination.  It devolves to "I'm for any change that helps me!"  But it's impossible to have a meaningful change that doesn't have some downsides.  So, real change is extremely difficult to manifest until it's clear that without that change, EVERYONE loses.  Even then, there will be objectors...c.f. the current pandemic...where some view a greater opportunity by denying the situation.  It's particularly ugly in that Fox has proven just how successful that approach can be.

 

So we're just going to sit around and wait for everything to collapse because Americans are unwilling to work for the common good....got it. Sigh...

[unclevlad]

7 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

So we're just going to sit around and wait for everything to collapse because Americans are unwilling to work for the common good....got it. Sigh...

 

Whose common good?  In order to even begin to work towards a goal, that goal needs to be identified...and the major blocs' definitions of "common good" have virtually no intersection.

 

There is some truth there;  but substitute "national Party leaders on both sides of the aisle" for "Americans."  I think the Republicans are the more intransigent;  their tactics have been to obstruct, obstruct, obstruct anything by the Dems.  But the Dems aren't immune to that.  And, it's not hard to read the election-law manipulation as an attempt to subvert democracy and hand them continuing power...and that it is probably working.  

 

So...in a sense, no.  Too large a power bloc is NOT willing to work for the common good.  Too much of the media is more than willing to feather their own nests, and stoke divisiveness because they profit from it.  Whatever the rank and file may want...whatever they may try to do...they don't have the voice, reach, or influence.  You're trying to use an umbrella to keep you dry in a hurricane.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

By this I take it you believe armed conflict is inevitable?

[TrickstaPriest]

45 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

By this I take it you believe armed conflict is inevitable?

 

I at least don't think so.  But a lot depends around what happens over the next few years around Trump and around the various... 'news casters' in the US.

 

It also depends a lot on whether the Biden admin can and will effectively address the severe poverty issues growing in this country.

[unclevlad]

 

47 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

By this I take it you believe armed conflict is inevitable?

 

"Armed conflict" is rather nebulous.  Demonstrations and counter-demonstrations that turn violent?  Probably.  Anything resembling a civil war?  I hope not.  Another incident like the Capitol Insurrection?  Possible.  Individual-on-individual shootings, arson, etc.?  Yes.

And the time frame is also "not tomorrow and probably not particularly soon."  Its taken, what, 30 or so years for things to sink to this point...which is another reason why I'm a pessimist...so the rot doesn't spread *that* quickly.  Nor can it be reversed quickly;  perhaps the best lesson would be to teach people to think for themselves, but good luck with that.  And that will still take decades.

 

Plus, honestly, I don't think we have the conditions to do so.  The cost of this pandemic is going to be coming back to bite us HARD.  I think climate change is starting to show significant negative impacts on food production, therefore cost, which will add to it.  We're only starting to see major, disruptive hacking to toss in further disruptions.  What all of this does, is make sure that we can't readily come together, even if we were inclined to do so.

 

 

[DShomshak]

Personally, I think there's a strong likelihood of significant armed insurrection -- bombings, massacres, Middle East-level semi-organized violence -- within 5 years. But not civil war, as such.

 

Dems won't try capturing the government by violence because Dems can get everything they want by normal political and electoral means. Polls show that even large numbers of Republican voters want what's on the current Democratic policy agenda.

 

Most Republicans are still sufficiently committed to the process of government (vide all the elections officials who did their jobs honestly in 2020 and certified the result) that they won't back an outright coup attempt or war.

 

The plutocratic far right is shrewd enough to get what it wants regardless of who runs the government.

 

That leaves the culture warriors who have boundless rage but no real institutional backing fro other segments of society, and entrepreneurs of violence who think they might be able to ride the chaos into power. Some of whom would no doubt turn to Russia, China or other geostrategic rivals of the US, acting as mercenaries against their own country.

 

Such an insurrection could not overthrow the US government. But it could cripple the US for years, creating a power vacuum that Russia and China could fill, not to the benefit of the rest of the world.

 

I would of course prefer to avoid such a conflict. I hope that the blood-and-guts screaming from the farthest right is just hot air; that if the Capitol insurrection showed the depth of their rage, it also showed the depth of their incompetence at political violence. It's a good sign that the DOJ seems to be elevating domestic right-wing terrorism as a concern.

 

And the population of Angry White People is dropping, which is part of what makes them so angry. In 10-20 years, it's over.Repuvlicans might gain a few decades through voter suppression and gerrymandering, but that's it. And if  the insurrection actually happens, they lose everything.

 

Dean Shomshak

[DShomshak]

Getting away from domestic concerns, a number od commentators on the BBC and All Things Considered have tried reading the tea leaves from the Biden-Putin meeting, and offered a few interesting observations. Number One being, Putin arrived on time. He's infamous for making the other side wait as a show of dominance. He made the Cheeto wait. But for Biden, he showed up on time.

 

The various pundits agreed that Putin *needed* this meeting. Some say he faces enough trouble at home that -- thought he needs the US as an opponent to sell Russians on his own autocracy -- it's gone too far and he needs to cool it. He doesn't want to handle both domestic opposition and a seriously hostile US. Others say his real attention is China: Putin's been cozying up to Beijing and needs to show he's important enough to be worth cultivating as an ally.

 

<cough> I prefer simply to think that this shrewd and tuthless man ecognizes the difference between the President of the United States of America and a game show host who got lucky.

 

Dean Shomshak

[TrickstaPriest]

36 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

Personally, I think there's a strong likelihood of significant armed insurrection -- bombings, massacres, Middle East-level semi-organized violence -- within 5 years. But not civil war, as such.

 

I was trying to avoid saying "X-ian Caliphate" but...

 

Yes, this is more or less what I've been trying to warn about.  This follows with the pattern of increased attacks following the pandemic - these shootings and attacks go up because of desperate circumstances.  The real question is whether there will be other significant emergencies over the next few years.

[archer]

Sanders open to SALT cap changes focused on middle class

 

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/559922-sanders-open-to-salt-cap-changes-focused-on-middle-class

 

As much as I would have enjoyed owning my own Strategic Arms when I was younger, I think those days are behind me.  

 

I'm kind of split on what I think as a tax policy though.

[Lawnmower Boy]

On 6/21/2021 at 4:52 PM, TrickstaPriest said:

 

 

 

Just skim the comments threads.

Look, as much as I hate to kick Tennessee when it's down, the state has the most fervent Aquaman fans in the Union. Sheesh. Says it all, I think.

[assault]

1 hour ago, Lawnmower Boy said:

Look, as much as I hate to kick Tennessee when it's down, the state has the most fervent Aquaman fans in the Union. Sheesh. Says it all, I think.

 

Especially since it's landlocked.

[archer]

Rudy Giuliani’s Law License Suspended Over ‘Demonstrably False’ Statements

 

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/breaking-rudy-giulianis-law-license-suspended/

 

“We conclude that there is uncontroverted evidence that respondent communicated demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public at large in his capacity as lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump and the Trump campaign in connection with Trump’s failed effort at reelection in 2020,” the court found. “These false statements were made to improperly bolster respondent’s narrative that due to widespread voter fraud, victory in the 2020 United States presidential election was stolen from his client. We conclude that respondent’s conduct immediately threatens the public interest and warrants interim suspension from the practice of law.”

[Pariah]

Ouch.

 

Ex-NRA president, gun rights advocate unknowingly speak at fake graduation representing kids killed by gun violence

[archer]

17 minutes ago, Pariah said:

Ouch.

 

Ex-NRA president, gun rights advocate unknowingly speak at fake graduation representing kids killed by gun violence

 

Yeah, Rachel Maddow covering this last night was especially brutal.

 

The organization which pulled the stunt basically wants mandatory comprehensive federal background checks before gun purchases, no exceptions.

 

Maddow pointed out that if the gun rights advocates had done even a cursory background check on the fake school that they would have easily discovered the school was a fake, the school website was a newly-created fake, there were no students, and the award that they were to receive had never existed or been given out to anyone in the past.

 

The people pulling the stunt didn't try to cover their tracks or make it hard for the targets to figure out it was all fake. They just assumed the targets would fall for it without question.

 

And they did.