Jump to content

Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)


Simon
 Share

Recommended Posts

deleted my line.


This isn't going away, and I'm honestly expecting a lot more violence.  And a lot, lot more religiously/politically motivated actions, and more public voices encouraging it.

 

😕

 

We, the rest of the public, have to start thinking about what kind of positive (and hopefully de-escalating) things that have to be done to deal with this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

Unless we address our societal issues, things will only continue to get worse. Sadly, the country appears to have lost the will for meaningful change.

 

Not lost the will.  Multiple factors in play:

 

--any change is in a zero-sum game...so if you win, I lose.

--"If you're not first, you're last."  Ricky Bobby.  Or I suspect, the inspiration:  Dale Earnhardt and "Second place is first loser."  How about "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."  That's Vince Lombardi...still THE Coaching God, with all due respect to Belichick or even Wooden.

 

NOT a good combination.  It devolves to "I'm for any change that helps me!"  But it's impossible to have a meaningful change that doesn't have some downsides.  So, real change is extremely difficult to manifest until it's clear that without that change, EVERYONE loses.  Even then, there will be objectors...c.f. the current pandemic...where some view a greater opportunity by denying the situation.  It's particularly ugly in that Fox has proven just how successful that approach can be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Not lost the will.  Multiple factors in play:

 

--any change is in a zero-sum game...so if you win, I lose.

--"If you're not first, you're last."  Ricky Bobby.  Or I suspect, the inspiration:  Dale Earnhardt and "Second place is first loser."  How about "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."  That's Vince Lombardi...still THE Coaching God, with all due respect to Belichick or even Wooden.

 

NOT a good combination.  It devolves to "I'm for any change that helps me!"  But it's impossible to have a meaningful change that doesn't have some downsides.  So, real change is extremely difficult to manifest until it's clear that without that change, EVERYONE loses.  Even then, there will be objectors...c.f. the current pandemic...where some view a greater opportunity by denying the situation.  It's particularly ugly in that Fox has proven just how successful that approach can be.

 

So we're just going to sit around and wait for everything to collapse because Americans are unwilling to work for the common good....got it. Sigh...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

So we're just going to sit around and wait for everything to collapse because Americans are unwilling to work for the common good....got it. Sigh...

 

Whose common good?  In order to even begin to work towards a goal, that goal needs to be identified...and the major blocs' definitions of "common good" have virtually no intersection.

 

There is some truth there;  but substitute "national Party leaders on both sides of the aisle" for "Americans."  I think the Republicans are the more intransigent;  their tactics have been to obstruct, obstruct, obstruct anything by the Dems.  But the Dems aren't immune to that.  And, it's not hard to read the election-law manipulation as an attempt to subvert democracy and hand them continuing power...and that it is probably working.  

 

So...in a sense, no.  Too large a power bloc is NOT willing to work for the common good.  Too much of the media is more than willing to feather their own nests, and stoke divisiveness because they profit from it.  Whatever the rank and file may want...whatever they may try to do...they don't have the voice, reach, or influence.  You're trying to use an umbrella to keep you dry in a hurricane.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

By this I take it you believe armed conflict is inevitable?

 

I at least don't think so.  But a lot depends around what happens over the next few years around Trump and around the various... 'news casters' in the US.

 

It also depends a lot on whether the Biden admin can and will effectively address the severe poverty issues growing in this country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

47 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

By this I take it you believe armed conflict is inevitable?

 

"Armed conflict" is rather nebulous.  Demonstrations and counter-demonstrations that turn violent?  Probably.  Anything resembling a civil war?  I hope not.  Another incident like the Capitol Insurrection?  Possible.  Individual-on-individual shootings, arson, etc.?  Yes.

And the time frame is also "not tomorrow and probably not particularly soon."  Its taken, what, 30 or so years for things to sink to this point...which is another reason why I'm a pessimist...so the rot doesn't spread *that* quickly.  Nor can it be reversed quickly;  perhaps the best lesson would be to teach people to think for themselves, but good luck with that.  And that will still take decades.

 

Plus, honestly, I don't think we have the conditions to do so.  The cost of this pandemic is going to be coming back to bite us HARD.  I think climate change is starting to show significant negative impacts on food production, therefore cost, which will add to it.  We're only starting to see major, disruptive hacking to toss in further disruptions.  What all of this does, is make sure that we can't readily come together, even if we were inclined to do so.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I think there's a strong likelihood of significant armed insurrection -- bombings, massacres, Middle East-level semi-organized violence -- within 5 years. But not civil war, as such.

 

Dems won't try capturing the government by violence because Dems can get everything they want by normal political and electoral means. Polls show that even large numbers of Republican voters want what's on the current Democratic policy agenda.

 

Most Republicans are still sufficiently committed to the process of government (vide all the elections officials who did their jobs honestly in 2020 and certified the result) that they won't back an outright coup attempt or war.

 

The plutocratic far right is shrewd enough to get what it wants regardless of who runs the government.

 

That leaves the culture warriors who have boundless rage but no real institutional backing fro other segments of society, and entrepreneurs of violence who think they might be able to ride the chaos into power. Some of whom would no doubt turn to Russia, China or other geostrategic rivals of the US, acting as mercenaries against their own country.

 

Such an insurrection could not overthrow the US government. But it could cripple the US for years, creating a power vacuum that Russia and China could fill, not to the benefit of the rest of the world.

 

I would of course prefer to avoid such a conflict. I hope that the blood-and-guts screaming from the farthest right is just hot air; that if the Capitol insurrection showed the depth of their rage, it also showed the depth of their incompetence at political violence. It's a good sign that the DOJ seems to be elevating domestic right-wing terrorism as a concern.

 

And the population of Angry White People is dropping, which is part of what makes them so angry. In 10-20 years, it's over.Repuvlicans might gain a few decades through voter suppression and gerrymandering, but that's it. And if  the insurrection actually happens, they lose everything.

 

Dean Shomshak

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Getting away from domestic concerns, a number od commentators on the BBC and All Things Considered have tried reading the tea leaves from the Biden-Putin meeting, and offered a few interesting observations. Number One being, Putin arrived on time. He's infamous for making the other side wait as a show of dominance. He made the Cheeto wait. But for Biden, he showed up on time.

 

The various pundits agreed that Putin *needed* this meeting. Some say he faces enough trouble at home that -- thought he needs the US as an opponent to sell Russians on his own autocracy -- it's gone too far and he needs to cool it. He doesn't want to handle both domestic opposition and a seriously hostile US. Others say his real attention is China: Putin's been cozying up to Beijing and needs to show he's important enough to be worth cultivating as an ally.

 

<cough> I prefer simply to think that this shrewd and tuthless man ecognizes the difference between the President of the United States of America and a game show host who got lucky.

 

Dean Shomshak

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

Personally, I think there's a strong likelihood of significant armed insurrection -- bombings, massacres, Middle East-level semi-organized violence -- within 5 years. But not civil war, as such.

 

I was trying to avoid saying "X-ian Caliphate" but...

 

Yes, this is more or less what I've been trying to warn about.  This follows with the pattern of increased attacks following the pandemic - these shootings and attacks go up because of desperate circumstances.  The real question is whether there will be other significant emergencies over the next few years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lawnmower Boy said:

Look, as much as I hate to kick Tennessee when it's down, the state has the most fervent Aquaman fans in the Union. Sheesh. Says it all, I think.

 

Especially since it's landlocked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...