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I feel this needs to be shared.  

You remember 4, 8, and 12 years ago a candidate going so far beyond the pale that their own party disavowed their statements? You remember former Presidents from the candidate's own party refusing to

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I plan to urge the DNC to filibuster at every turn. After all, the GOP opposed Obama at every turn; turnaround is fair play.

The Republicans rarely used the filibuster outside of political appointments.  Barrack Obama, as I recall, has only issued 1 veto in 2 terms.  Personally, I'd prefer to get rid of the 60-member closure vote and just make proposals stand or fail on their own merits (to the extent that actually happens) than as the result of Parliamentary Procedure.

 

The rules are what they are.  If the DNC decides to filibuster at every turn, I suspect a President Trump will take a page out of President Obama's book and just do whatever he wants by executive order.  As you say, "turnaround is fair play."

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If the Electoral College becomes proportional, then it's just a middleman.  Why have it at all? 

 

Two reasons...

sometimes incremental steps are easier to adapt to than whole hog

and there is such a thing as the tyranny of the masses too, and if a majorly populated state wanted something at the expense of a less populated state... right or wrong, the folks in that smaller state might be glad of buffers. Or at the least, it might be nice if the less populated places weren't ignored even more than the are now.

 

That aside, If the EC was removed flat out, I would shed no tears.

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The rules are what they are.  If the DNC decides to filibuster at every turn, I suspect a President Trump will take a page out of President Obama's book and just do whatever he wants by executive order.  As you say, "turnaround is fair play."

 

God I hope not. Executive privilege is not something that should be used to end-run around Congress. I hate it when any president does so.

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Actually this is just false.  He never bankrupted any business 6 times.  He has had, according to some reports, been involved in 6 different Chapter 11 Reorganizations.  That said, a Chapter 11 reorganization is a rather common event for large cap enterprises, particularly those that have extensive union contracts, for example Delta Airlines and General Motors.  

 

I get you don't like the guy, but this statement is simply false.  Most of the bankruptcies were casinos during the 1990's when the entire Gaming Industry took a bath.  The same thing happened to television antenna installers.

 

A partial list of Trump bankruptcies:

 

TrumpMortgage

TrumpFinancial

Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts

Trump Shuttle

GoTrump.com

Trump Vodka

Trump Steaks

Trump Taj

Trump Castle

Trump Plaza

Trump Dubai

Trump University

Trump Toronto

Trump Hollywood

 

Not including several other failed projects that he merely sold naming rights to.  His business record is so atrocious that only Deutsche Bank and the Russians will loan him money, and he stiffed Deutsche Bank for $640M in 2008.

 

I'm not sure how many of the above were built with Chinese steel.

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Is it?  His own campaign didn't trust him with a Twitter account. 

 

Well, time will tell. On the other hand, I can remember as far back as Reagan, where there was this constant rhetoric that Reagan was going to launch nukes at a moment's notice. It didn't happen then and I have a pretty good feeling that it won't happen now. 

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Actually this is just false.  He never bankrupted any business 6 times.  He has had, according to some reports, been involved in 6 different Chapter 11 Reorganizations.  That said, a Chapter 11 reorganization is a rather common event for large cap enterprises, particularly those that have extensive union contracts, for example Delta Airlines and General Motors.  

 

I get you don't like the guy, but this statement is simply false.  Most of the bankruptcies were casinos during the 1990's when the entire Gaming Industry took a bath.  The same thing happened to television antenna installers.

 

Mirage Hotel and Casino, built in 1989, was the most expensive hotel casino at the time at $640 million. It easily made its money back, and expanded by building the Treasure Island in 1993. Money from both properties eventually led to the building of the Bellagio Hotel and Casino, which opened in 1998. Money from those casinos eventually helped to launch the Wynn in 2005, which cost $2.7 billion to build.

 

Meanwhile, Circus Circus started to expand by building the 4000 room Excalibur Hotel and Casino, which opened in 1990. Revenue from that project allowed Circus Circus Enterprises to build the Luxor, which opened in 1993, and then the Mandalay Bay, which opened in 1999.

 

The Las Vegas Sands Corporation opened the Venetian in 1999 on the site of the former Sands hotel.

 

I could go on, mentioning the expansion of "locals" casinos in the Vegas market, the rise of tribal gaming, and even the rise of riverboat gaming. But, with the exception of the Great Recession in 2008 and its fallout, most gaming companies have been very successful, especially during the 90s.

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That was kind of the thrust of Hillary Clinton's concession speech. It was a lot less about conceding (beyond the obligatory "let's work together with the new president" message) and more about motivating the Democratic Party base to keep fighting the good fight. I can respect that.

 

What we need is for those that don't support Trump to understand why so many people felt so disenfranchised and ignored by the "media elite" and policy makers that they elected someone with so many personality flaws to the presidency. If that communication can happen we can get actual growth - not just name calling of supporters from one side or the other. Much of middle/lower class America has felt ignored, mocked and brushed off that they finally said 'Enough is enough"

 

Think about jokes made at the expense of "white trash" or rural Americans, (people who work hard all their lives only to see jobs going overseas and health care costs rising) - the jokes made at thier expense by comedian of the stripe of Bill Maher ... if those jokes were made about any other group (Minorities, Islam, women) the person would be off the air and careers destroyed. It makes sense that the butt of those jokes decided to make a statement about change, even supporting someone they may find personally distasteful.

 

Personally I don't like Trump, but I can completely understand why he was elected. I'm hoping the shock of Hilary's defeat will make the liberal elite actually try and figure out why and communicate with them - and build a better future that includes them; instead of mocking and ignoring them as has been done by Washington insiders for decades.

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This isn't the first time it's happened, and it won't be the last. Fixing the Electoral College would require a Constitutional Amendment, and that would require 38 States to pass. I don't recall the last time 38 States agreed on anything.

Not necessarily. But that IS what would be required to abolish it. It can be "fixed" short of abolition.

 

 

The President has the mandate of the people no matter how that person became president.

No.

 

 

 

If the Electoral College becomes proportional, then it's just a middleman.  Why have it at all?

Because it happens to be constitutionally required. And amending the Constitution is extraordinarily difficult (see above.)

 

REFORMING it so that it is required to be proportional would be hard, but not so hard as abolishing it. That would require passing laws in, ideally, all states to require proportionality rather than "Winner take all" but that would still not be as difficult as getting an amendment ratified.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary applies for a scholarship to the Electoral College

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What we need is for those that don't support Trump to understand why so many people felt so disenfranchised and ignored by the "media elite" and policy makers that they elected someone with so many personality flaws to the presidency. If that communication can happen we can get actual growth - not just name calling of supporters from one side or the other. Much of middle/lower class America has felt ignored, mocked and brushed off that they finally said 'Enough is enough"

On the contrary, we completely understand why people feel disenfranchised and ignored. We too feel disenfranchised and ignored. What's harder to understand is why they think electing a corporate "billionaire" is going to help with that. There's only one party that would even consider helping out that class of voter, and it isn't Trump's.

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On the contrary, we completely understand why people feel disenfranchised and ignored. We too feel disenfranchised and ignored. What's harder to understand is why they think electing a corporate "billionaire" is going to help with that. There's only one party that would even consider helping out that class of voter, and it isn't Trump's.

Hillary is seen by many as having cheated Bernie out of the nomination with the superdelegate situation. More standard Washington insider stuff. With that view someone could see Trump as having a better chance of change than she does. The fact he never held elected office is a big bonus there too.

 

Personally I think Bernie would have beat Trump.. but *shrug*.

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Hillary is seen by many as having cheated Bernie out of the nomination with the superdelegate situation. More standard Washington insider stuff. With that view someone could see Trump as having a better chance of change than she does. The fact he never held elected office is a big bonus there too.

So the serial liar and fraudster billionaire is... better?

 

Look, explain it to me as though I were a small, working-class child:

 

A: I vote for Trump.

B: ???

C: My life improves!

 

Fill in that B: for me. I'm not being facetious or anything, I really do want to understand.

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Why would you expect the DNC to respond any differently than the RNC did during Obama's first term? The ideological dissonance is if anything, even greater.

 

Playbook as taken from the loyal opposition is: dig in, rally the base, oppose everything, filibuster appointments, drag out process with parlimentary procedure, plan for next opportunity. Blame all failures on current administration. Emphasize successes are a result of previous administration policy.

 

Use media to portray things as worse than they are. Never negotiate on meaningful issues, but say you will so it plays with your base. Prevent SCOTUS appointments via filibuster so the next President can make a choice that'd be more centrist.

 

That's pretty palatable at the moment. We'll see if anything changes my mind in the coming months. I'm going to be strongly states rights ironically, living in my nice Bay Area, California bubble.

 

Figure even if the Fed changes rules on the ACA, pretty good chance the state covers it with their own replacement regs (already expanded Medi-Cal to undocumented kids, we love us some ACA in California). And so forth, I work in government and the tenor in Sacramento is panicky but ready to use that new reefer money (or whatever) to backfill if we have to prop up the crazy federals.

 

We aren't keen on this, but the nation will survive. And I don't see California being any more aligned to this administration than Texas was to the previous one.

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So the serial liar and fraudster billionaire is... better?

 

Look, explain it to me as though I were a small, working-class child:

 

A: I vote for Trump.

B: ???

C: My life improves!

 

Fill in that B: for me. I'm not being facetious or anything, I really do want to understand.

 

It's not necessarily better - but different. The last couple of decades Obama, W (to an extend) and Clinton has all been going a similar direction. He is different. We know (from that point of view) that what we had is slowly destroying my life, and Hillary is more of the same. Trump may not be any better, but at least he is different, and may make things better. Clinton would not for sure.

 

It's not so much that someone would want Trump, but the "brick thrown through the Washington establishment window"  that he represents.

 

These two article here and here really explain what I am talking about.

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It's not necessarily better - but different.

But it's not even different. It's not even a brick through the Washington establishment window. The establishment that's holding them down is corporate-funded rich guys in Washington. If anything they've voted for more establishment. With a side of fraud and racism because sure, why not.

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But it's not even different. It's not even a brick through the Washington establishment window. The establishment that's holding them down is corporate-funded rich guys in Washington. If anything they've voted for more establishment. With a side of fraud and racism because sure, why not.

 

I was talking from that point of view. He talked a different game. Both are frauds and liars (in my opinion).

 

I've expressed myself as best as I am able. If you don't understand, I won't be able to do any more.

We have been arch-nemesis for years, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

 

 

My first opinion of my own about the election. I was relieved when Trump was elected. I didn't vote for either of them (I had a candidate that I could, in good conscience vote for)- but between the two, the idea of Clinton being elected scared me more than Trump.

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