Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[DShomshak]

On 7/20/2021 at 9:17 AM, Cygnia said:

Texas Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That Ku Klux Klan Is ‘Morally Wrong’

A teacher asks:

<quote>"How could a teacher possibly discuss slavery, the Holocaust, or the mass shootings at the Walmart in El Paso or at the Sutherland Springs church in my district without giving deference to any one perspective?” she asked.</quote>

 

Sounds easy to me: After describing the event in all its horror, conclude with, "The Republicans of the state legislature forbid me, by law, from saying that these actions were immoral." Which is absolutely factual, and thus cannot be accused of "giving deference to any one perspective." But I suspect that high schoolers, at least, will get the message. Especially if delivered with an eyeroll and an ostentatiously pious tone of voice.

 

Dean Shomshak

[TrickstaPriest]

4 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

Sounds easy to me: After describing the event in all its horror, conclude with, "The Republicans of the state legislature forbid me, by law, from saying that these actions were immoral." Which is absolutely factual, and thus cannot be accused of "giving deference to any one perspective."

 

Gotta love some malicious compliance like that.

[archer]

On 7/20/2021 at 11:17 AM, Cygnia said:

Texas Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That Ku Klux Klan Is ‘Morally Wrong’

 

With all the emphasis on "learning being a process of discovery" rather than a rote memorization of dry facts, I could see some people thinking that teaching about the Ku Klux Klan burning crosses, terrorizing people, burning people out of their homes, intimidating them from voting, beating people, etc. and thinking "this would be the perfect opportunity for kids to draw a correct conclusion rather than blatantly telling them that the Ku Klux Klan is morally wrong".

 

However, I could also see hundreds of thousands of kids being taught all of that and still not be able to draw the correct conclusion that the Ku Klux Klan is morally wrong.

[L. Marcus]

11 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

Gotta love some malicious compliance like that.

"But Brutus is an honourable man!"

[archer]

The National Guard is canceling trainings after Congress failed to reimburse the force for its months-long deployment at the U.S. Capitol following the Jan. 6 insurrection. 

 

All 50 states plus some territories participated in the deployments. None of them have been reimbursed.

 

And won't be reimbursed until lawmakers come up with an emergency appropriation to cover the costs. 

 

With one of the political parties wanting to make it a point to stick it to the other and to deny that anything happened on Jan. 6, some sort of funding compromise isn't likely to happen anytime soon (to say the least).

 

Whatever happened to supporting the troops in general whether you agreed with any particular mission or not? I've been hearing the drumbeat of that message for at least the last 20 years....

 

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/564680-national-guard-cancels-trainings-after-congress-fails-to-reimburse

[TrickstaPriest]

8 minutes ago, archer said:

With one of the political parties wanting to make it a point to stick it to the other and to deny that anything happened on Jan. 6, some sort of funding compromise isn't likely to happen anytime soon (to say the least).

 

 

Wonder how this will effect military voting records in the future.

[TrickstaPriest]

 

[death tribble]

Oh well said. Someone needs to kick our cabinet in the backside

[archer]

2 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

Wonder how this will effect military voting records in the future.

 

Well, the military didn't come out in favor of a coup. And a number of generals have come forward in recent days telling about the plans they had to stop one if they'd been ordered to participate.

 

So I'd guess that it's very much up in the air.

[Lord Liaden]

The higher officers are generally firmly against the more authoritarian moves by Trump, but no few of the lower ranks support the Right. So I agree, it's still up in the air.

[TrickstaPriest]

2 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

The higher officers are generally firmly against the more authoritarian moves by Trump, but no few of the lower ranks support the Right. So I agree, it's still up in the air.

 

Yeah.  I know what the generals are saying, but how many of the lower ranks believe the election was legitimately stolen (despite how amazingly difficult that would be, and how no one put any evidence legitimately through the legal system)

[Lord Liaden]

Just about everyone who could be convinced by evidence, already has been. The rest accept their party line as though it was an issue of faith.

[DShomshak]

21 hours ago, archer said:

The National Guard is canceling trainings after Congress failed to reimburse the force for its months-long deployment at the U.S. Capitol following the Jan. 6 insurrection. 

 

All 50 states plus some territories participated in the deployments. None of them have been reimbursed.

 

And won't be reimbursed until lawmakers come up with an emergency appropriation to cover the costs. 

 

With one of the political parties wanting to make it a point to stick it to the other and to deny that anything happened on Jan. 6, some sort of funding compromise isn't likely to happen anytime soon (to say the least).

 

Whatever happened to supporting the troops in general whether you agreed with any particular mission or not? I've been hearing the drumbeat of that message for at least the last 20 years....

 

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/564680-national-guard-cancels-trainings-after-congress-fails-to-reimburse

Donald Trump tried to use the National Guard as his Praetorian Guard in suppressing protest and generally asserting imperial authority.

 

Let us hope the Guard does not embrace this new role. While it might be amusing to see disgruntled Guard units pointing guns at Republican lawmakers while saying they will get paid, that would be very, very bad for the country as a whole.

 

Dean Shomshak

[unclevlad]

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/24/covid-vaccine-push-rural-500717

 

The key point insofar as this thread is concerned:  Federal aid may be counterproductive, and even local officials who work their backsides off to get people to accept the vaccine, don't necessarily want it for that reason.

 

Quote

Many people here and elsewhere in the Southeast are turning down Covid-19 vaccines because they are angry that President Donald Trump lost the election and sick of Democrats in Washington thinking they know what’s best. State and local public health officials have struggled to combat that deep-rooted obstinance. 

 

Emphasis mine.

 

The election fraud/lie should be temporary, altho it's increased the polarization a great deal.  It won't, I think, remain a central issue but it may well be a big underlying factor.  It's the second part...the obstinance, the hate isn't new.  This is, tho, one of the more stark examples of it.

 

You can blame the politicians all you like, and they deserve a lot of it.  There's also a feedback effect...the lack of response by the lower-level governments feeds the deniers, the deniers inhibit the progressives and facilitate the non-responders/reopener types.

 

And it's why the boots-on-the-ground stories can say more than the numbers.  Like the story posted, what, early this week, about the problems in Kansas City.  Covid's acting kinda like tornado-forming weather systems...there's mild impacts like rain or hail in most places...but where those twisters drop down, it's devastating small areas.

 

It is revolting to think this...but probably true.

Covid hasn't been enough of a threat, or done enough damage, so maybe we could *fix* the social problems or come together for unified action.  It's been just bad enough to make a major nightmare, but not to compel attention.

[Lord Liaden]

Unlike tornadoes, hurricanes, wildfires, earthquakes... COVID is covert. The casualties from the virus die relatively quietly, out of sight of most people. Even though it's as bad as or worse than any of those in its own way, there is no imagery of spectacular devastation to galvanize the public into taking serious action. For that reason it's also easier for politicians and media to turn people away from vaccination.

[csyphrett]

For something like Covid to be taken seriously by the population at large, people would have to drop dead in the streets like 28 days. The fact that so many have died is easily discounted by that was some other country, an error in the news, government lying, Covid only takes the old, whatever.

 

To show people they are being stupid, people would have to start dropping across their towns faster than ambulances could pick them up and take them to the hospital

CES

[Matt the Bruins]

Sadly that's not off the table in some hotspots.

[TrickstaPriest]

 

Read the comments if you want to understand why I believe left vs right equivocation is a joke.

 

This isn't going away.  This is literal 'alternate reality politics'.

[TrickstaPriest]

On 7/25/2021 at 8:25 PM, unclevlad said:

Emphasis mine.

 

The election fraud/lie should be temporary, altho it's increased the polarization a great deal.  It won't, I think, remain a central issue but it may well be a big underlying factor.  It's the second part...the obstinance, the hate isn't new.  This is, tho, one of the more stark examples of it.

 

The problem is literally any effort to do anything can be spun as that.  Literally any effort to do nothing at all can also be spun as that.

 

I'm not sure how one can account for the feedback of 'dems in Washington thinking they know best' when that's literally anything the party tries to do.  If that's all it takes, at that point the federal government might as well split in two.

[unclevlad]

1 minute ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

The problem is literally any effort to do anything can be spun as that.  Literally any effort to do nothing at all can also be spun as that.

 

I'm not sure how one can account for the feedback of 'dems in Washington thinking they know best' when that's literally anything the party tries to do.  If that's all it takes, at that point the federal government might as well split in two.

 

Not the government.

The country.

And it's close to being there now.

[TrickstaPriest]

5 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Not the government.

The country.

And it's close to being there now.

 

Yeah, pretty much the same conclusion I have been saying 😕

 

Because quite frankly, why is it "the dems who know better"?

 

Know better about what?

 

The argument essentially derides having a federal government at all - which is fine, but that takes us back, again, to the time of warring states.  Anyone can ask Japan about the Warring States period - 100 years of war - to know how that goes.

 

And that seems to be what is being actively encouraged for political theater.

 

What are they going to get out of this if they have to flee the country?  What happens when this 'alternate reality of we know better' crashes against realities like covid?  I guess I don't get how anyone fostering this actually expects a better outcome than the current direction.  Magical thinking I guess.

[wcw43921]

Capitol Police Testify About January 6 Attacks

[archer]

Olympic Observations

 

Rep. Matt Gaetz tried to enter the women's 100m breaststroke after he found out some of the competitors were under 18 years old.

.

.

.

 

https://www.mediaite.com/news/are-you-a-pedophile-matt-gaetz-and-marjorie-taylor-greene-flee-presser-after-hecklers-shut-it-down/

[TrickstaPriest]

1 hour ago, wcw43921 said:

Capitol Police Testify About January 6 Attacks

 

Yes.  This has been interesting.

[DShomshak]

18 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Not the government.

The country.

And it's close to being there now.

To use sociologist Arlene Hochschild's title for her book about Tea Party/Trumpists, a large segment of White Americans fell like "Strangers in their Own Land." Deep cultural grievance against what they perceive as urban/coastal professional elites; zero belief that government, at any level, serves their practical interests so they vote based on cultural signaling; a complete and seamless alternate reality of interlocking delusions about minorities, welfar, how many people work for government, and many other matters.

 

At this point, yeah, I think the best option is to try negotiating a peaceful divorce. My two proposals are:

 

1) Sell the cities to Canada. I'd be willing to accept colonial status for 50 years, while I and other former-Americans adjust to Canadian norms. Worth it for the health care and gun control, while Canada acquires most of the USA's economic activity.

 

2) Reservations for white people. Think South African-style "homelands." Whites only, however residents choose to define this; they can write their own laws and constitutions, but lose congressional representation and a vote in presidential elections, and cannot conduct any foreign policy or foreign trade. So, residents give up all political power but they can indulge their cultural obsessions to their hearts' content. Mandatory Christian observance? (What sect?) Go ahead. Stoning for homosexuality or abortion? Go ahead. History textbooks that are fantasy novels? Outlaw unions as 'Marxist' abominations? Go ahead. Just so long as people can leave.

 

If Trump had won reelection, I'd be actively promoting Option 1 through letters to Congress. Since Biden won, I'd prefer Option 2.

 

Dean Shomshak