Jump to content

Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)


Simon
 Share

Recommended Posts

18 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Not the government.

The country.

And it's close to being there now.

To use sociologist Arlene Hochschild's title for her book about Tea Party/Trumpists, a large segment of White Americans fell like "Strangers in their Own Land." Deep cultural grievance against what they perceive as urban/coastal professional elites; zero belief that government, at any level, serves their practical interests so they vote based on cultural signaling; a complete and seamless alternate reality of interlocking delusions about minorities, welfar, how many people work for government, and many other matters.

 

At this point, yeah, I think the best option is to try negotiating a peaceful divorce. My two proposals are:

 

1) Sell the cities to Canada. I'd be willing to accept colonial status for 50 years, while I and other former-Americans adjust to Canadian norms. Worth it for the health care and gun control, while Canada acquires most of the USA's economic activity.

 

2) Reservations for white people. Think South African-style "homelands." Whites only, however residents choose to define this; they can write their own laws and constitutions, but lose congressional representation and a vote in presidential elections, and cannot conduct any foreign policy or foreign trade. So, residents give up all political power but they can indulge their cultural obsessions to their hearts' content. Mandatory Christian observance? (What sect?) Go ahead. Stoning for homosexuality or abortion? Go ahead. History textbooks that are fantasy novels? Outlaw unions as 'Marxist' abominations? Go ahead. Just so long as people can leave.

 

If Trump had won reelection, I'd be actively promoting Option 1 through letters to Congress. Since Biden won, I'd prefer Option 2.

 

Dean Shomshak

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I realize the legalities would be complicated; and I made the comparison to South Africa's "homelands" to make clear this wouldn't exactly parallel Native American reservations. The "Albistans" wouldn't exactly be territories like Puerto Rico or Guam, either.

 

My paper today had an editorial by Leonard Pitts addressed to Democrats in general and Kirsten Sinema in particular, the gist of which is that the old Union is as dead as was once the Civil War started. Trying to restore it is a fool's hope. Just as Lincoln realized he couldn't restore the status quo ante, leading to the Emancipation Proclamation, Dems like Sinema must realize it's time to reinvent the United States again.

 

I would be interested in finding out how many Republicans would willingly give up any Federal participation in order to gain nearly-unfettered local control. It's a fairly "out there" proposal, but I agreewith Pitts that there's no going back.

 

Dean Shomshak

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DShomshak said:

I realize the legalities would be complicated; and I made the comparison to South Africa's "homelands" to make clear this wouldn't exactly parallel Native American reservations. The "Albistans" wouldn't exactly be territories like Puerto Rico or Guam, either.

 

My paper today had an editorial by Leonard Pitts addressed to Democrats in general and Kirsten Sinema in particular, the gist of which is that the old Union is as dead as was once the Civil War started. Trying to restore it is a fool's hope. Just as Lincoln realized he couldn't restore the status quo ante, leading to the Emancipation Proclamation, Dems like Sinema must realize it's time to reinvent the United States again.

 

I would be interested in finding out how many Republicans would willingly give up any Federal participation in order to gain nearly-unfettered local control. It's a fairly "out there" proposal, but I agreewith Pitts that there's no going back.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

Stuff goes in such cycles in American politics.

 

We had HUAC and McCarthy running roughshod over civil liberties for years before McCarthy overreached and people started realizing he was in it more for himself than to fight a communist menace.

 

I think we're in better shape now than we were on January 5th or January 7th. Or yesterday.

 

If Trump goes through all his legal and financial problems unscathed and puts out the money/effort necessary to run a political campaign for the Republican nomination, I'll be more worried.

 

We're not quite in the same boat as Argentina was with Peron and the Peronistas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, wcw43921 said:

 

The problem is....

 

No one cares any more.

 

And it does absolutely nothing to move anyone's needle.  Yeah, we're seeing the tell-all books I expected, but whose opinion will be moved even slightly?  Those on the anti-Trump side can't hate him any more.  The Trumpists will ignore it along with everything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

The problem is....

 

No one cares any more.

 

And it does absolutely nothing to move anyone's needle.  Yeah, we're seeing the tell-all books I expected, but whose opinion will be moved even slightly?  Those on the anti-Trump side can't hate him any more.  The Trumpists will ignore it along with everything else.

 

Yeah, Trump has transitioned from pretending to be a president to grifting people who think he should still be president and pocketing the money (as seen in many ways but especially from the fact that his raising money for further audits hasn't been spent in any manner toward promoting new audits despite the "fact" that the audits were supposed to put him back into power this month).

 

As long as he's rabble-rousing and grifting, nobody's going to care about the inside story except the few who follow politics as avidly as others follow baseball.

 

Now if Trump transitions from pure grifting to actually putting together a campaign structure for 2024, the material from the tell-all books will become more relevant since it'll be dragged out for examination on news show panels, debates, commercials, etc.

 

And particularly the "Trump wanted to use the military against protestors" thing was spoiled almost in real time from leaks inside the administration. The only thing we didn't have was all the identities of everyone who was in the room at specific meetings and the exact verbiage of what was supposedly said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, archer said:

Now if Trump transitions from pure grifting to actually putting together a campaign structure for 2024, the material from the tell-all books will become more relevant since it'll be dragged out for examination on news show panels, debates, commercials, etc.

 

 

What examination?  

 

The Democrats, IMO, wouldn't need to.  I felt in 2015 and 2016 that Hillary was the worst possible Democratic candidate because she, more than any other, would galvanize the Republicans.  Trump's 1000 times worse in this regard.  If he somehow got the nomination, you'll have *every* Democrat making sure to vote, restrictions be damned.  Get it done SOMEHOW.  A second term is the absolute, worst-case scenario....in part because if it *could* happen, Trump would very likely have both the Senate and House.  And the Supreme Court.  Yes indeed, the apocalypse has arrived.

 

Go through it.  If Trump showed momentum in early primaries, odds are that more Congressional Republican nominees would be vocal Trumpists.  If he could win the election, they're very likely to ride in on his coattails.    It is IMO a VERY real concern that a second-term Trump would have a rubber-stamp Congress.  He wouldn't have a rubber-stamp Court, but there's too much of a chance that they'd let him get away with FAR too much.

 

Potentially more interesting would be the degree to which other Republicans try to use these against Trump.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, archer said:

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) has tested positive for COVID-19 a few days after he was at a small gathering with other senators on Sen. Joe Manchin's (D-W.V.) houseboat.

 

https://theweek.com/delta-variant/1003288/lindsey-graham-reportedly-attended-a-small-gathering-on-joe-manchins

 

People recovering from COVID may have substantial drop in intelligence.

 

https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/03/people-recovering-from-covid-may-have-substantial-drop-in-intelligence-15030236/

 

Anyone care to follow Graham after his recovery to see if there's a notable drop in intelligence?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fourth Officer Who Responded To Capitol Riot Has Died By Suicide

 

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3401157/fourth-capitol-riot-officer-dead-by-suicide/

 

With these two quick back-to-back suicides, it makes me wonder if it's a response to the poor reception given to the officers who testified recently in front of the House committee.

 

I mean, the committee itself treated the officers well. But I saw the officers savaged in public responses to the testimony.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right-wing media have been coming down very hard on those officers after their testimony, calling them cowards and/or liars. That almost certainly translated into hostility from some members of their home communities.

 

It just goes to prove that the Right "support the police" only when it's convenient.

 

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

People recovering from COVID may have substantial drop in intelligence.

 

https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/03/people-recovering-from-covid-may-have-substantial-drop-in-intelligence-15030236/

 

Anyone care to follow Graham after his recovery to see if there's a notable drop in intelligence?

 

How could you tell?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, archer said:

With these two quick back-to-back suicides, it makes me wonder if it's a response to the poor reception given to the officers who testified recently in front of the House committee.

 

I almost immediately saw tons of comments online suggesting that they were assassinated.  Because reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Right-wing media have been coming down very hard on those officers after their testimony, calling them cowards and/or liars. That almost certainly translated into hostility from some members of their home communities.

 

It just goes to prove that the Right "support the police" only when it's convenient.

 

People have called for attempts to "placate" and "reason with" these neanderthals.

 

...nah...

 

Personally, I think the sooner they're outed and confronted, the better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's the anti-mask, anti-vaccine, climatechange-is-a-hoax political group 'in particular' that's a huge problem.

 

The problem is that the election story is more or less uniting a lot of 'generally-right-wing' political groups into a potentially dangerous force.  Dangerous for everyone, even themselves.

 

So I won't get too down on people for 'support the police' and so on

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...