Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Old Man]

We have been arch-nemesis for years, so I'll just leave it at that.

Understood.

 

You are my favorite arch-nemesis, by the way. My BANF, if you will.

[Lord Mhoram]

Understood.

 

You are my favorite arch-nemesis, by the way. My BANF, if you will.

Lol.

 

That is the exact reason I figured it was safe to talk about politics here. The other major RPG message board I visit is seemingly militant left, and facebook is a disaster. Thanks for have a civil, if unresolved, discussion.

[Iuz the Evil]

Guess who's being considered for Secretary of the Interior?

 

You betcha! *wink*

Jesus wept. Better than Secretary of HHS, but her managing the bureau of land management is pretty bad. Drill baby drill I guess. We've got some unexploited resources in the national park system, if she's looking for a place to start. Only sort of kidding.

[Iuz the Evil]

Myron Ebell expected to head Trump's EPA transition team. Guy is a climate change denier. Fantastic.

 

If you're anti-conservation and against emissions-regulation this is great news but this was one of the reasons of concern. Here we go.

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/who-is-in-president-trump-cabinet-231071

 

Ben Carson as HHS Secretary? Newt Gingrich as Secretary of State?

 

Huh. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the planet reacts as the coming months roll the changes out. At least we will have a more chummy relationship with Russia?

 

I got nothing.

[FrankL]

This isn't the first time it's happened, and it won't be the last. Fixing the Electoral College would require a Constitutional Amendment, and that would require 38 States to pass. I don't recall the last time 38 States agreed on anything.

The first Tuesday following the first Monday in November, 1984?

 

(The 27th amendment was ratified in 1992, but I wanted to throw Reagan's 49-state blitzkreig win in for lolz.)

[Ternaugh]

You can get just so much
From a good thing
You can linger too long
In your dreams
Say goodbye to the
Oldies but goodies
Cause the good ole days weren't
Always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems

[Sociotard]

Hey, remember all the rumors that Trumps people would go full on Red Dawn if he lost?

 

I guess the party I voted for isn't much better.

 

Trump Election sparks protests, borderline riots

 

Okay, I guess it isn't violent. Yet. 'just' lighting tires on fire in the street. Still. I'd hoped for more decorum.

[Pattern Ghost]

The tires would probably consider it violent.

 

Remember the old saying. "Though boys burn tires in sport, yet the tires do not melt in sport but in earnest."

[薔薇語]

Why would you think anything else would happen? We have spent the entire cycle demonizing the opposition. We have convinced too many that President-Elect Trump is the next Hitler and all that it entails. If you actually believed Hitler had been reborn in orange, wouldn't you go to streets? Actually, I am perhaps more shocked that more vocal elites in media aren't in full on apocalyptic riot mode given ths extremist position some have taken.

 

Perhaps this can serve as a lesson to us all about open processes, honesty and hopefulness in message, and NOT demonizing all opposition.

 

Soar.

[tkdguy]

Hey, remember all the rumors that Trumps people would go full on Red Dawn if he lost?

 

I guess the party I voted for isn't much better.

 

Trump Election sparks protests, borderline riots

 

Okay, I guess it isn't violent. Yet. 'just' lighting tires on fire in the street. Still. I'd hoped for more decorum.

 

Considering a lot of folks refused to accept Obama as their president, why can't these guys do the same? I for one am still unwilling to accept him.

 

The protests won't do anything in the long run. Trump will still be inaugurated, and folks will still be unhappy. Nothing will change in the long run, either in Washington or in most people's lives.

[TheDarkness]

Why would you think anything else would happen? We have spent the entire cycle demonizing the opposition. We have convinced too many that President-Elect Trump is the next Hitler and all that it entails. If you actually believed Hitler had been reborn in orange, wouldn't you go to streets? Actually, I am perhaps more shocked that more vocal elites in media on in full on apocalyptic riot mode given ths extremist position some have taken.

 

Perhaps this can serve as a lesson to us all about open processes, honesty abd hopefulness in message, and NOT demonizing all opposition.

 

Soar.

White nationalists played an important role in his twitter campaign, and his staff included someone who provides the (by this staff member, self-professed) news outlet for the alt-right, all of whose major figures are likewise (self-professed) white nationalists. Trump's twitter account on multiple occasions tweeted messages that were quotes from white nationalists.

 

This would have, in every previous election in my life, been the end of his campaign.

 

It's kind of hard NOT to demonize such a brazen association with white nationalists. And it's kind of to be expected that people who might not be cozy with the historical implications of a president with overt ties to white nationalists might see 'hey, let's all get along' as either disingenuous or ill-informed.

 

Now, I do not rule out that Trump will dump those white nationalists now that he is president. But, unfortunately, he has already shown them that they have political power. That was not a good idea, and is, in my opinion, the biggest issue.

[薔薇語]

This is a cross posting from my Facebook.

 

"People are already calling for the President Elect's impeachment. Jeez. Remember when the republican right ranted about this 8 years ago and how we mocked them for their idiocy? Let's not now embrace this BS. One of the few things I clearly remember and felt great about in 08 was that the next day even Glenn freaking Beck went on air and decried every last unpatriotic fucker that spewed out that filthy "not my president" garbage. Let's not mark this occasion with less grace than Glenn Beck - if we can't be classier than him, then we truly do deserve this.

 

I dislike the man. I don't hold out any hope for the country to become more free and prosperous in the next four years. But President Elect Donald J. Trump is MY president."

 

To quote Mahatma Gandhi, "Be the change you want to see."

 

Soar.

[tkdguy]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that for now. And my opinion is just as valid as yours, so don't deride it.

 

Besides, I strongly suspect the GOP will try to to punish the Democrats instead of reaching out to them. I just don't see anyone coming together no matter who's in charge.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Facing which way?

360 degree swivel so I can keep my options open.

[Badger]

Today I'm kind of hoping the wall turns north at the Arizona border.

 

If you are talking about CA, I know quite a few conservatives who would want a wall built around it.

[Badger]

THis might be difficult for some to take, but I do think some of the "hidden vote" that the polls missed, it has occurred to me where it came from.

 

In the last decade,  a lot on the liberal side  have made a pretty virulent and aggressive effort to dehumanize the conservative in front of the masses, and it has been quite successful.  Agreeing with Obama, 90 percent of the time has become a requirement to avoid being called racist.  Vote for Hillary or you hate women.   Homophobe.  Warmonger.  Being called racist, is probably the worst insult you can throw in this hyper-PC environment.  A very serious charge that should not be thrown around like candy at Halloween.  Conservatives aren't above such rhetoric, in different forms.  But, quite, honestly, the left has been much more intense and relenting of late.  I think some conservatives were essentially bullied into silence.  You don't say you will vote for a guy, you expect the questionnaire will attack you for supporting.  I think they seethed and yesterday, unleashed.  You cannot say "conservatives are bigots"  and expect me, a conservative, not to take it personally.  I wasn't blinded to vote for Trump.  But, others might have seen this moment as their time of revenge.

 

Not to say, never to use such language.  But, I would hope, maybe, it is used more carefully in the future.  And not as the political weapon it has become.

[Badger]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that for now. And my opinion is just as valid as yours, so don't deride it.

 

Besides, I strongly suspect the GOP will try to to punish the Democrats instead of reaching out to them. I just don't see anyone coming together no matter who's in charge.

 

Yes, unfortunately, at least in my adulthood.  The GOP hated Bill Clinton.  So, the Dems decided to hate Bush twice as much. So, the GOP decided to hate Obama twice as much. The Dems will hate Trump, twice as much.  Etc.

[TheDarkness]

THis might be difficult for some to take, but I do think some of the "hidden vote" that the polls missed, it has occurred to me where it came from.

 

In the last decade,  a lot on the liberal side  have made a pretty virulent and aggressive effort to dehumanize the conservative in front of the masses, and it has been quite successful.  Agreeing with Obama, 90 percent of the time has become a requirement to avoid being called racist.  Vote for Hillary or you hate women.   Homophobe.  Warmonger.  Being called racist, is probably the worst insult you can throw in this hyper-PC environment.  A very serious charge that should not be thrown around like candy at Halloween.  Conservatives aren't above such rhetoric, in different forms.  But, quite, honestly, the left has been much more intense and relenting of late.  I think some conservatives were essentially bullied into silence.  You don't say you will vote for a guy, you expect the questionnaire will attack you for supporting.  I think they seethed and yesterday, unleashed.  You cannot say "conservatives are bigots"  and expect me, a conservative, not to take it personally.  I wasn't blinded to vote for Trump.  But, others might have seen this moment as their time of revenge.

 

Not to say, never to use such language.  But, I would hope, maybe, it is used more carefully in the future.  And not as the political weapon it has become.

The problem is, Trump utilized flat out white nationalists. Not as some side thing. These aren't people anyone needs to call racists, they call themselves it. Every day, Publicly.

 

This is not the klan just saying, we support this guy, no one can control that. This is the actual candidate putting one of these people in a key role in his organization, this is quoting them on twitter with his own account, this is utilizing them on twitter every damned day.

[Badger]

Two reasons...

sometimes incremental steps are easier to adapt to than whole hog

and there is such a thing as the tyranny of the masses too, and if a majorly populated state wanted something at the expense of a less populated state... right or wrong, the folks in that smaller state might be glad of buffers. Or at the least, it might be nice if the less populated places weren't ignored even more than the are now.

 

That aside, If the EC was removed flat out, I would shed no tears.

 

I'd be in favor, of it being done Nebraska/Maine style.  It would give districts stuck in states that go the other way a small voice.  In VA,  most of us might as well stay home. Because the gov't employees in Northern VA, will vote for whoever promises the most regulations to insure their job security.  I don't blame them.  But, it is frustrating, to feel that the only voice I have in the government process is my House Congressman.  ANd it would likely help fairly evenly,  GOP in CA, Dems in TX.   Dems in the Atlanta area get a vote or 2, when most the rest of the state goes GOP.

 

It would still disenfranchise some. But, I believe it would fewer.

[TheDarkness]

This is a cross posting from my Facebook.

 

"People are already calling for the President Elect's impeachment. Jeez. Remember when the republican right ranted about this 8 years ago and how we mocked them for their idiocy? Let's not now embrace this BS. One of the few things I clearly remember and felt great about in 08 was that the next day even Glenn freaking Beck went on air and decried every last unpatriotic fucker that spewed out that filthy "not my president" garbage. Let's not mark this occasion with less grace than Glenn Beck - if we can't be classier than him, then we truly do deserve this.

 

I dislike the man. I don't hold out any hope for the country to become more free and prosperous in the next four years. But President Elect Donald J. Trump is MY president."

 

To quote Mahatma Gandhi, "Be the change you want to see."

 

Soar.

I did not support all of Bush's initiatives, but I did not generally see him as evil. I hoped he was more like his father, and would recognize the dangers of giving his base too much, but he was not, and that did lead to a lot of the problems we see now.

 

Trump has made use of white nationalists. Unless he clips their wings fast, any compromise would merely be a convenience for me, given that I'm white, that others would be paying for who were not so lucky. That's not at all principled.

 

Now, if he clips their wings, then he's just more of the same, and that would be a relief.

[Badger]

The problem is, Trump utilized flat out white nationalists. Not as some side thing. These aren't people anyone needs to call racists, they call themselves it. Every day, Publicly.

 

This is not the klan just saying, we support this guy, no one can control that. This is the actual candidate putting one of these people in a key role in his organization, this is quoting them on twitter with his own account, this is utilizing them on twitter every damned day.

 

My issue at the moment is with calling 49 percent of the country racists.   That is the key problem I have had with a lot of liberals (not all, I want to be careful how I put it, not to be like what has been done to me)

[Badger]

This isn't true. At least, it wasn't true for me. The main reason I voted for Bush was that there was no reason to vote for John Kerry.  His entire platform (if that's even the right word) was "Elect me because I'm not George W. Bush". And it failed--much like Hillary Clinton's non-platform of "Elect me because I'm not Donald Trump" failed last night.  (Admittedly, Hillary makes the stronger case.)

 

Blaming fear and hatred for Kerry's loss in 2004 is a nice excuse a decade after the fact, but it's not true.  I didn't vote for Bush out of fear, or out of hatred of Middle Easterners. I voted for Bush because I didn't see Kerry as a viable option.

 

I didn't vote Kerry because of that too.  (me and my friends even made jokes about it.  Asking one of us a policy question, and no matter what answering it "I am not George Bush".

 

To date,  2004 Bush is the only Presidential election that I voted for the winner.  If the people agreed with me, it is obvious how unfit Kerry was. 

[TheDarkness]

My issue at the moment is with calling 49 percent of the country racists.   That is the key problem I have had with a lot of liberals (not all, I want to be careful how I put it, not to be like what has been done to me)

I understand. BUT, if a candidate puts self professed white nationalists in key roles in his election, and people vote for him, and say nothing against this even when it's brought up, why would you assume they WEREN'T racist?

 

I mean, if I see a guy at a Klan rally, but he's not wearing sheets, I'm gonna make assumptions. Trumps that guy now. The only potential saving grace for Trump is if he was maybe being an opportunist, but the problem is, he's emboldened them, and the other problem is, why would anyone give him the benefit of the doubt after hobnobbing with white nationalists?

 

David Duke himself referred to their role in the Trump campaign as important to the rise of this wretched movement. And the Alt-right served a significant role online.

 

I mean, we're not talking about people we think might be racists. We're talking about people we all know are racists.

[Badger]

I plan to urge the DNC to filibuster at every turn. After all, the GOP opposed Obama at every turn; turnaround is fair play.

 

Me too, as I love gridlock on both sides.  Change is usually* a horrible thing.

 

*not always,  but the Browns record is in viewing distance

[薔薇語]

TheDarkness:

 

People fling around the term white nationalist rather brazenly these days. But since you are stating there are self professed WN in Trumps campaign (not just loosely associated like David Duke), I need to know who this person is. I know at least one person involved who calls himself a big alt-righter and has had to rebuff a few dishonest jounalists who imply he is a WN. The only actual WN I know to have been associated with the campaign was a delegate who was promptly removed when it was discovered by the campaign. Hardly a scandal.

 

Soar.