Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[archer]

26 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

• History Professors Consider How The Afghanistan War ... - npr.org

  www.npr.org/2021/08/22/1030154266/history...

  Heard on All Things Considered Audio will be available later today. NPR's Michel Martin discusses what the war in Afghanistan will mean in U.S. history with historian Kathleen Belew, retired U.S....

   

  Relevant here: As two of the professors note, Americans have very short political memories. Unless there are new attacks from Afghanistan, the scenes of Kabul airport will likely soon be forgotten. From a crass political perspective, Biden can still turn this into a win if he keeps repeating that We Are Out, the Forever War Is Over -- no matter what happens to the Afghan people.

  Dean Shomshak

 

Don't remember whether I've discussed it here or not but the other possible scenario for it to affect the midterm elections is if the Taliban decide to hold our Afghan allies and a scattering of Americans who didn't make it out hostage.

 

Then release video their gruesome executions in the months leading up to the election.

 

Though I can't imagine they'd think that helping put a bunch of war-mongering Trumpsters back in office would be better for them than helping re-elect the party of the president who gave them a country and thousands of Western-allied hostages.

 

(But trying to think like a bunch of Pakistani Islamic fundamentalists who want to roll the clock back to the 10th century isn't my forte.)

[Lord Liaden]

From the moment Donald Trump announced an American troop pullout, this ending was forseeable. It was always going to end badly, but it could have ended less badly. But under a second-term President Trump it almost certainly would have ended worse.

[Cygnia]

New Laws Have Basically Ended Voter Registration Drives In Some Parts Of The U.S.

[Lord Liaden]

20 hours ago, archer said:

 

Don't remember whether I've discussed it here or not but the other possible scenario for it to affect the midterm elections is if the Taliban decide to hold our Afghan allies and a scattering of Americans who didn't make it out hostage.

 

Then release video their gruesome executions in the months leading up to the election.

 

Though I can't imagine they'd think that helping put a bunch of war-mongering Trumpsters back in office would be better for them than helping re-elect the party of the president who gave them a country and thousands of Western-allied hostages.

 

(But trying to think like a bunch of Pakistani Islamic fundamentalists who want to roll the clock back to the 10th century isn't my forte.)

 

No offense intended, but this remark suggests some misperception of the Taliban as being ignorant hill folk totally blinded by their regressive ideology. Their leaders were all educated young men at the time they seized power, and they've been playing both the military and diplomatic games for decades. They've shown themselves to be quite shrewd at them. The Taliban have absolutely nothing to gain by provoking America while their forces are in the process of leaving, and they know better than anyone what happens when a foreign nation hurts a bunch of Americans.

 

Oh, and Joe Biden did not "give" the Taliban a country. It was already theirs for the taking. For years the Taliban have been seeding their supporters among the general populace throughout Afghanistan, ready to move as soon as foreign troops left. That's how they were able to take the country so quickly. They knew all they had to do was be patient. The Taliban did what Afghans have always done when foreigners invaded: retreat to and strike from their impregnable mountain fastnesses, until the foreigners grow weary of endless conflict and leave. It often takes decades, even a century or more in a few cases, but the end is inevitable.

[Lord Liaden]

18 hours ago, Cygnia said:

New Laws Have Basically Ended Voter Registration Drives In Some Parts Of The U.S.

 

The Republican federal and state parties appear to have generally accepted that they can't win if they don't cheat, and they're determined to win. Having disseminated the lie that widespread vote fraud occurred during the last nationwide election, they're using that as their cloak to justify restrictions correcting a problem that doesn't exist.

[Asperion]

There's no way to prove this,  but I believe that such measures are to lock the current dominant party in place,  not to do public will.

[DShomshak]

A recent discussion on the public radio program On the Media suggested all the voter suppression is just Plan A, or even a smoke screen to keep Democrats distracted. As Plan B to control elections -- or perhaps the real plan -- is all the laws giving state legislatures the power to annul elections that they deem "marred by fraud." Which, as we have seen, is any election whose outcome goes against Republicans. But On the Media is not the most reliable source,as its guests may be, hm, excitable or biased in scholarship.

 

One of my friends suggests that many Republicans may think that all this maneuvering to control election outcomes is "just part of the game." Dems try to manipulate elections by increasing voter turnout in their reliable constituencies; so Republicans are justified in trying to reduce that turnout. This line of reasoning makes several ugly assumptions; of which perhaps the most honest is that Republican policies are hostile to large segments of the population, and always will be. If there was any chance that young people, minorities, the poor, etc. might look at a Republican candidate's platform and say, "Yeah, that's good for me and my country" -- why, the more voters, the better, right?

 

I also hear claims that blue states are generally adopting nonpartisan means of redrawing voting districts while red states go all in for gerrymandering, which if true puts the lie to the both-sidesism. One party wants to win elections by getting votes; one party does not.

 

Dean Shomshak

[death tribble]

US Judge reprimands Trump election fraud lawyers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58344982

 

As a foreigner, good.

[Joe Walsh]

Lots of things suck right now, but I'm happy my state is re-instituting the indoor mask mandate.

 

Too bad the Dem governor waited until a 20-county region was at 3% ICU capacity, but at least it got done.

[Simon]

13 minutes ago, GM Joe said:

Lots of things suck right now, but I'm happy my state is re-instituting the indoor mask mandate.

 

Too bad the Dem governor waited until a 20-county region was at 3% ICU capacity, but at least it got done.

Was glad to see that come through -- on a local level, I _just_ managed to get the historic society to say that we're going to require masks at the forge and museum starting tomorrow, so this was good timing.

[Simon]

side note: was highly amused that one of the concerns was with people that may argue the mask mandate in the building. My response:  we're blacksmiths.  We have 2000 degree steel and hammers, there is no argument.  Also, if they try to say that they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing  a mask, they definitely should not be in a forge with coal smoke.  

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, death tribble said:

US Judge reprimands Trump election fraud lawyers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58344982

 

As a foreigner, good.

 

Love it.  Pretty sure it's a rare step by the judge, but one I was hoping would be taken in at least some of these ridiculous filings.  Powell et al get stuck with the tab, altho collecting...who knows, that might be trickier.  And may well be disbarred.

 

Utterly.

Deserved.

 

Next up:  the MyPillow boycott.

[Pariah]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

side note: was highly amused that one of the concerns was with people that may argue the mask mandate in the building. My response:  we're blacksmiths.  We have 2000 degree steel and hammers, there is no argument.  Also, if they try to say that they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing  a mask, they definitely should not be in a forge with coal smoke.  

 

[wcw43921]

Sirhan Sirhan Up For Parole Again

[DShomshak]

I heard on ATC today that seven Capitol Police officers are suing Trump, Roger Stone, Proud Boys and others over inciting and participating in the Jan. 6 attack. It was just a little announcement between stories, but I thought people would like to know. I look forward to learning more.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Cancer]

I hope they have the foresight to attach any revenue derived from any coming ghostwritten books ostensibly published under Trump's name, perhaps tp be titled "My Struggle" or something.

[Asperion]

17 hours ago, death tribble said:

US Judge reprimands Trump election fraud lawyers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58344982

 

As a foreigner, good.

 

U.S. press is still too wrapped up in this idea that Trump can do no wrong that when something like this happens,  the only way people in America can discover that it happened is through international media. American media will only point out things that make him look good. 

[Grailknight]

5 minutes ago, Asperion said:

 

U.S. press is still too wrapped up in this idea that Trump can do no wrong that when something like this happens,  the only way people in America can discover that it happened is through international media. American media will only point out things that make him look good. 

 

What media sources have you been reading? Anything to the left of Fox tears into Trump like sharks on a whale carcass.

[Lectryk]

12 minutes ago, Asperion said:

 

U.S. press is still too wrapped up in this idea that Trump can do no wrong that when something like this happens,  the only way people in America can discover that it happened is through international media. American media will only point out things that make him look good. 

 

Um, you mean they won't carry stories like this one?  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/us/politics/sidney-powell-election-sanctions.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

I'm with grailknight; what are you reading?  I can't look at a regular media site without seeing stories critical of Trump or his policies or his business dealings...

 

I mean, One America News (or whatever it is) fellates him at every opportunity, but any credible and wothwhile site tears into him (Fox is neither, and the many net based sites are at best questionable if not out right shills also).

[Matt the Bruins]

On 8/26/2021 at 3:58 PM, Simon said:

side note: was highly amused that one of the concerns was with people that may argue the mask mandate in the building. My response:  we're blacksmiths.  We have 2000 degree steel and hammers, there is no argument.  Also, if they try to say that they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing  a mask, they definitely should not be in a forge with coal smoke.  

 

"How's that mask sounding now, Sparky?"

 

[Tom]

8 hours ago, Asperion said:

 

U.S. press is still too wrapped up in this idea that Trump can do no wrong that when something like this happens,  the only way people in America can discover that it happened is through international media. American media will only point out things that make him look good. 

The story has already been on CNN’s website.

[Pariah]

Yeah, the idea that American mainstream media go out of their way to make Trump look good just doesn't hold water. I strongly suspect that most US media outlets wouldn't push a story casting Donald Trump in a positive light even if it were true. (But as it turns out, there aren't a lot of opportunities to test this hypothesis.)

[Ragitsu]

15 minutes ago, Pariah said:

Yeah, the idea that American mainstream media go out of their way to make Trump look good just doesn't hold water. I strongly suspect that most US media outlets wouldn't push a story casting Donald Trump in a positive light even if it were true. (But as it turns out, there aren't a lot of opportunities to test this hypothesis.)

 

Good or bad, as long as he is or can be made to be "interesting enough", he'll be kept around.

[TrickstaPriest]

https://stephensemler.substack.com/p/the-top-5-military-contractors-ate

 

Just for the Afghan war.

[Pattern Ghost]

19 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

https://stephensemler.substack.com/p/the-top-5-military-contractors-ate

 

Just for the Afghan war.

It says "during the Afghan war," on the site. Doesn't say that the chart shows only expenses tied directly to Afghanistan.

 

Still, I wonder what else that money could buy. One estimate of the cost of total student loan forgiveness is 1.6 trillion dollars, so you'd still have some pocket change left over for other stuff too, like infrastructure.