Jump to content

Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)


Simon
 Share

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Afghanistan IS the Kobiyashi Maru.

 

Could it have been handled better?  Probably, yeah.  But it was never going to work out.

 

There's a marked difference between "some innocents dying" and someone made choices so that the result would be that "some innocents died" plus "your friends died" plus "the guy who saved your life, repeatedly, died".

 

The first is a tragedy. The second is a very, very personalized tragedy.

 

====

 

Also note there's a difference between "personal" and "personalized". "Personal" is that it means something to you.

 

"Personalized" is that someone intentionally did this so that it means something to you.

 

Innocents die in the Kobiyashi Maru, it's a test of character.

 

Failing the Kobiyashi Maru so spectacularly that you personalize the tragedy for the cadets under your command and vigorously defending your very flawed decisions without apparently learning anything from them would be an unforgivable flaw in a command candidate.

 

Finding that unforgivable flaw before you make the mistake of giving that person command is the apparent reason, in-universe, that test is given toward the end of the cadet's command training rather than at the beginning

 

====

 

Unfortunately we don't live in Star Trek. And Trump's host of flaws outweighs Biden's, even at this point, by several orders of magnitude.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A man accused of helping to coordinate a self-styled militia’s incursion into the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 was released Monday to home confinement after arguing his wife would keep him from falling back into extremist views.

 

“She has no tolerance for that kind of talk,” federal public defender Angie Halim said.

 

Only after a federal judge agreed to release Joseph Hackett did a prosecutor mention that his wife, Deena, hosted a political podcast. While the prosecutor did not describe the show’s content, a Deena Hackett co-hosted two episodes of a podcast called “A&D’s Patriot Battle Cry (Rub THAT In!!)” in which she described her husband as a “political prisoner” who was “trying to preserve … this country.” The podcast also includes references to far-right conspiracy theories.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oath-keeper-wins-release-from-jail-after-lawyer-says-he-is-no-longer-radicalized/ar-AANEl7k

 

 

That's a novel legal defense for the Trumpsters to try....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Pariah said:

Attention Democrats:

 

All you have to do, literally all you have to do to keep Trump and his cronies out of Congress and/or the White House for the next 2-4 years is not screw anything up as badly as the COVID-19 fiasco. Any measure of competence will do, no matter how limited.

 

*sees Afghanistan situation*

 

Never ******* mind.

  • History Professors Consider How The Afghanistan War ... - npr.org

    www.npr.org/2021/08/22/1030154266/history...

    Heard on All Things Considered Audio will be available later today. NPR's Michel Martin discusses what the war in Afghanistan will mean in U.S. history with historian Kathleen Belew, retired U.S....

     

    Relevant here: As two of the professors note, Americans have very short political memories. Unless there are new attacks from Afghanistan, the scenes of Kabul airport will likely soon be forgotten. From a crass political perspective, Biden can still turn this into a win if he keeps repeating that We Are Out, the Forever War Is Over -- no matter what happens to the Afghan people.

    Dean Shomshak

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, DShomshak said:
  • History Professors Consider How The Afghanistan War ... - npr.org

    www.npr.org/2021/08/22/1030154266/history...

    Heard on All Things Considered Audio will be available later today. NPR's Michel Martin discusses what the war in Afghanistan will mean in U.S. history with historian Kathleen Belew, retired U.S....

     

    Relevant here: As two of the professors note, Americans have very short political memories. Unless there are new attacks from Afghanistan, the scenes of Kabul airport will likely soon be forgotten. From a crass political perspective, Biden can still turn this into a win if he keeps repeating that We Are Out, the Forever War Is Over -- no matter what happens to the Afghan people.

    Dean Shomshak

 

Don't remember whether I've discussed it here or not but the other possible scenario for it to affect the midterm elections is if the Taliban decide to hold our Afghan allies and a scattering of Americans who didn't make it out hostage.

 

Then release video their gruesome executions in the months leading up to the election.

 

Though I can't imagine they'd think that helping put a bunch of war-mongering Trumpsters back in office would be better for them than helping re-elect the party of the president who gave them a country and thousands of Western-allied hostages.

 

(But trying to think like a bunch of Pakistani Islamic fundamentalists who want to roll the clock back to the 10th century isn't my forte.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the moment Donald Trump announced an American troop pullout, this ending was forseeable. It was always going to end badly, but it could have ended less badly. But under a second-term President Trump it almost certainly would have ended worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, archer said:

 

Don't remember whether I've discussed it here or not but the other possible scenario for it to affect the midterm elections is if the Taliban decide to hold our Afghan allies and a scattering of Americans who didn't make it out hostage.

 

Then release video their gruesome executions in the months leading up to the election.

 

Though I can't imagine they'd think that helping put a bunch of war-mongering Trumpsters back in office would be better for them than helping re-elect the party of the president who gave them a country and thousands of Western-allied hostages.

 

(But trying to think like a bunch of Pakistani Islamic fundamentalists who want to roll the clock back to the 10th century isn't my forte.)

 

No offense intended, but this remark suggests some misperception of the Taliban as being ignorant hill folk totally blinded by their regressive ideology. Their leaders were all educated young men at the time they seized power, and they've been playing both the military and diplomatic games for decades. They've shown themselves to be quite shrewd at them. The Taliban have absolutely nothing to gain by provoking America while their forces are in the process of leaving, and they know better than anyone what happens when a foreign nation hurts a bunch of Americans.

 

Oh, and Joe Biden did not "give" the Taliban a country. It was already theirs for the taking. For years the Taliban have been seeding their supporters among the general populace throughout Afghanistan, ready to move as soon as foreign troops left. That's how they were able to take the country so quickly. They knew all they had to do was be patient. The Taliban did what Afghans have always done when foreigners invaded: retreat to and strike from their impregnable mountain fastnesses, until the foreigners grow weary of endless conflict and leave. It often takes decades, even a century or more in a few cases, but the end is inevitable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Cygnia said:

 

The Republican federal and state parties appear to have generally accepted that they can't win if they don't cheat, and they're determined to win. Having disseminated the lie that widespread vote fraud occurred during the last nationwide election, they're using that as their cloak to justify restrictions correcting a problem that doesn't exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A recent discussion on the public radio program On the Media suggested all the voter suppression is just Plan A, or even a smoke screen to keep Democrats distracted. As Plan B to control elections -- or perhaps the real plan -- is all the laws giving state legislatures the power to annul elections that they deem "marred by fraud." Which, as we have seen, is any election whose outcome goes against Republicans. But On the Media is not the most reliable source,as its guests may be, hm, excitable or biased in scholarship.

 

One of my friends suggests that many Republicans may think that all this maneuvering to control election outcomes is "just part of the game." Dems try to manipulate elections by increasing voter turnout in their reliable constituencies; so Republicans are justified in trying to reduce that turnout. This line of reasoning makes several ugly assumptions; of which perhaps the most honest is that Republican policies are hostile to large segments of the population, and always will be. If there was any chance that young people, minorities, the poor, etc. might look at a Republican candidate's platform and say, "Yeah, that's good for me and my country" -- why, the more voters, the better, right?

 

I also hear claims that blue states are generally adopting nonpartisan means of redrawing voting districts while red states go all in for gerrymandering, which if true puts the lie to the both-sidesism. One party wants to win elections by getting votes; one party does not.

 

Dean Shomshak

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, GM Joe said:

Lots of things suck right now, but I'm happy my state is re-instituting the indoor mask mandate.

 

Too bad the Dem governor waited until a 20-county region was at 3% ICU capacity, but at least it got done.

Was glad to see that come through -- on a local level, I _just_ managed to get the historic society to say that we're going to require masks at the forge and museum starting tomorrow, so this was good timing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

side note: was highly amused that one of the concerns was with people that may argue the mask mandate in the building. My response:  we're blacksmiths.  We have 2000 degree steel and hammers, there is no argument.  Also, if they try to say that they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing  a mask, they definitely should not be in a forge with coal smoke.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, death tribble said:

US Judge reprimands Trump election fraud lawyers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58344982

 

As a foreigner, good.

 

Love it.  Pretty sure it's a rare step by the judge, but one I was hoping would be taken in at least some of these ridiculous filings.  Powell et al get stuck with the tab, altho collecting...who knows, that might be trickier.  And may well be disbarred.

 

Utterly.

Deserved.

 

Next up:  the MyPillow boycott.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Simon said:

side note: was highly amused that one of the concerns was with people that may argue the mask mandate in the building. My response:  we're blacksmiths.  We have 2000 degree steel and hammers, there is no argument.  Also, if they try to say that they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing  a mask, they definitely should not be in a forge with coal smoke.  

 

snape GIF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard on ATC today that seven Capitol Police officers are suing Trump, Roger Stone, Proud Boys and others over inciting and participating in the Jan. 6 attack. It was just a little announcement between stories, but I thought people would like to know. I look forward to learning more.

 

Dean Shomshak

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, death tribble said:

US Judge reprimands Trump election fraud lawyers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58344982

 

As a foreigner, good.

 

U.S. press is still too wrapped up in this idea that Trump can do no wrong that when something like this happens,  the only way people in America can discover that it happened is through international media. American media will only point out things that make him look good. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Asperion said:

 

U.S. press is still too wrapped up in this idea that Trump can do no wrong that when something like this happens,  the only way people in America can discover that it happened is through international media. American media will only point out things that make him look good. 

 

What media sources have you been reading? Anything to the left of Fox tears into Trump like sharks on a whale carcass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Asperion said:

 

U.S. press is still too wrapped up in this idea that Trump can do no wrong that when something like this happens,  the only way people in America can discover that it happened is through international media. American media will only point out things that make him look good. 

 

Um, you mean they won't carry stories like this one?  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/us/politics/sidney-powell-election-sanctions.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

I'm with grailknight; what are you reading?  I can't look at a regular media site without seeing stories critical of Trump or his policies or his business dealings...

 

I mean, One America News (or whatever it is) fellates him at every opportunity, but any credible and wothwhile site tears into him (Fox is neither, and the many net based sites are at best questionable if not out right shills also).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/26/2021 at 3:58 PM, Simon said:

side note: was highly amused that one of the concerns was with people that may argue the mask mandate in the building. My response:  we're blacksmiths.  We have 2000 degree steel and hammers, there is no argument.  Also, if they try to say that they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing  a mask, they definitely should not be in a forge with coal smoke.  

 

"How's that mask sounding now, Sparky?"

 

istockphoto-522481362-612x612.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Asperion said:

 

U.S. press is still too wrapped up in this idea that Trump can do no wrong that when something like this happens,  the only way people in America can discover that it happened is through international media. American media will only point out things that make him look good. 


The story has already been on CNN’s website.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, the idea that American mainstream media go out of their way to make Trump look good just doesn't hold water. I strongly suspect that most US media outlets wouldn't push a story casting Donald Trump in a positive light even if it were true. (But as it turns out, there aren't a lot of opportunities to test this hypothesis.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...