Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Ranxerox]

1 hour ago, Iuz the Evil said:

Vote for Iuz, I will stretch out my skeletal hand from crumbling Dorakaa and raise the dead to serve my will. Their undead labor will drastically reduce necessary costs for infrastructure improvement. I’m pro family, in that all family members shall serve my dark reign or perish…

 

America has shown it’s willingness to be led by dark forces. Isn’t it time we embraced that destiny instead of hiding behind tired slogans?

 

I find your views intriguing and wish to subscribe to your news letter.

[Lawnmower Boy]

20 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I don't think Ron or Greg are that smart. Every time they face public backlash over one of their moronic decrees, they double-down on it even harder.

 Not to double down on my own facetious comment, but the primaries aren't over. I guess the problem is that in 2016 they never ended. It is still possible that the GOP will learn its lesson.

 

Though at this point it seems more likely that the national party will collapse into irrelevance. I mean, the basic problem in 2016 was that a vast dragnet of candidates wasn't able to put a viably Presidential figure up against Trump, which is a bad sign for a national party that governs a majority of the states.

 

By viable, I mean tall, handsome, charismatic, good hair, but without triggering gaydar; well-spoken, fast on his (yes, his) feet; a track record in national politics. I understand that people make it to the Oval Office without these properties, but they're mostly people for whom the fix is in. Starting with nothing --and at least so far the candidate with an institutional grip on the nomination is a thing of the past--  and you need to meet the requirements of central casting. The Democratic races very strongly suggest that getting a good candidate with the stereotypical CEO look just isn't hard for a national party with millions of candidates to draw on. Yet guys with obvious "presidentialness" flash through the GOP like comets and are gone, and we're left with the spectacle of men like Chris Christie and Scott Walker pretending to themselves that they can be President. I mean, did they even notice how some people are popular in high school and other people who happen to be overweight or have receding chins? This isn't rocket science, and I speak as a bald guy who will never be CEO of anything. 

 

Sorry for venting about my "Good Hair Theory of the Collapse of the Third Party System," but it's a sad spectacle to see at every level. It even makes me feel bad for Scott Walker!  

[tkdguy]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:39 PM, tkdguy said:

The final votes have yet to be counted, but Governor Newsom gets to keep his job. 

 

Speaking as a volunteer to oppose the recall, I have to say, THANK GOD!  

 

Just a few follow-up articles about the recall attempt.

 

The ballot had two questions. Question 1 asked whether Gov. Newsom should be recalled. That was a simple yes or no choice. Question 2 asked who you wanted as a replacement if the yes votes won. The list had almost 50 names. You could write in your choice, but it only counted if the person was on the approved list; Gov. Newsom was not approved. The Democratic strategy was to vote no on #1 and leave #2 blank. While many questioned the logic, it apparently worked. Here's how Californians voted. Now that the election is over, there's work on reforming the recall process. Note that California only requires 12% of the voting population to sign the petition, while other states require 25%. In any case, California's status among Democrats seems to be on the rise.

 

I volunteered on the text bank, sending messages via Spoke (we used ThruText in the Biden campaign). One of the moderators let us know that our team sent out over 46 million texts over the last six months! I didn't join until around June, but I'm proud to have been part of that movement.

[Iuz the Evil]

While I’m pleased he was not recalled, it is my hope that Governor Newsom doesn’t read into the results as a ringing endorsement of his administration. 
 

Larry Elder running against him was a gift. That was a completely unacceptable alternative. It may have gone very very differently had the California GOP been able to run a centrist candidate. 
 

The PG&E scandals alone are very concerning. French Laundry-gate is just a symptom of the inherent issues where a single party system feels unaccountable to the electorate. I held my nose and voted for the least objectionable candidate. Most likely I’d throw up my hands and walk away next time if nothing changes with this administration. I have voted Democrat for over 24 years at this point, and I know for a fact I’m not alone in that assessment.

 

I’m pleased at the outcome, but far from celebratory. It was just that the other option was so much worse… we have serious problems with accountable leadership in this country. And that isn’t a partisan comment, in my opinion. Cuts both ways, it’s the rich and powerful - and everyone else.

[tkdguy]

I don't think Newsom sees this as a ringing endorsement. While I was in no way a major part of the campaign, even I got messages stating that they'd like to replace him with someone more progressive. I do think he has done a decent job handling COVID; the number of cases in California are proportionately lower than the rest of the country. I can forgive the French Laundry incident as long as he actually has learned from it. But yes, the leadership on both sides and at every level needs to be more accountable to the electorate.

 

You're right about Elder being good for Newsom. Even GOP leaders wanted a more centrist Republican leading the charge. There were a few; it's just that Elder ended up as the front-runner. And while he conceded defeat, his campaign had plans to claim widespread fraud. This was leaked even before election day; I guess they saw writing on the wall.

[Lord Liaden]

Another perspective on the recent Texas abortion law which I found illuminating:

 

 

[Cygnia]

[unclevlad]

One would hope that even his supporters would prefer Trump STFU about any hypothetical fraud almost a year ago now.  What comes after beating a dead horse?  Beating it up after it's been rendered into dog food?  

 

I doubt most of his supporters would ever see this in a negative light but this just proves he's completely disconnected from reality.

 

Beau may be right but I think he's phrasing the point poorly.  The question isn't how many are not in favor of banning virtually all abortions, including cases which the vast majority would allow.  The issue is:  how many of those who support at least the rape and incest exceptions, find NOT including them to be a deal-buster...first about this bill, then even more...about the officials voting for them?

 

THAT is likely a much smaller percentage, I'm afraid.

 

And I'm still less worried about the abortion ban than the bounty hunting aspects.

[TrickstaPriest]

This is apparently more of the opinion that dropboxes in Georgia should be entirely discounted from the election process.  So basically, discount the dropbox results that were probably perfectly legal?

[TrickstaPriest]

 

[dmjalund]

3 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

can you find the video he refers to?

[TrickstaPriest]

14 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

can you find the video he refers to?

never seen it.  I more referenced it for the situation in Idaho... and the comments in the video do say that at least one of the health providers won't be doing the DNR...

 

at least for now.

 

I really wonder how bad this can get.  How much more of the population in these areas can be spreading it before the whole state is infected?

[Ranxerox]

22 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

can you find the video he refers to?

 

 

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, dmjalund said:

can you find the video he refers to?

 

Yeah, he was talking about the one he'd put out earlier, which we'd discussed...and the point that a CNA gets paid better at the gas station....

 

Also, there's some clarification about how bad things are:

https://idahocapitalsun.com/2021/09/18/no-idaho-is-not-under-a-universal-dnr-hospitals-wont-just-let-everyone-die/

 

Mind, while this doesn't paint as dire a picture, geeze, it's still REALLY BAD.  Idaho's new case numbers are only slightly lower than most of the wintertime surge, and deaths are close...but there's a major spike of 40 deaths in one day, that's a severe outlier, that might be skewing that data.  (And the numbers are low enough to be more noisy.)

 

A sickening fact from the data...since August 1st, the death rate in Florida has been about 1 person per 2000.  ~21.5M people, a bit over 11,000 deaths.  I checked a few other states manually, but that was the worst.  South Carolina was 1 in 3000.  That's not cases, that's deaths.  So you can figure hospitalization rates have to be several times higher.

 

Pick an adjective to describe how this makes you feel.

Angry.

Sad.

Frustrated.

Irate.

Flabbergasted.

Helpless.

 

They're like Lay's potato chips...no one can pick just one.

 

 

[Lectryk]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/21/us/politics/trump-dominion-voting.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20210921&instance_id=40945&nl=updates-from-the-newsroom&regi_id=59430290&segment_id=69508&te=1&user_id=6c9389d03dad9fe20eccb0f72439fd4b

 

Trump Campaign Knew Lawyers’ Voting Machine Claims Were Baseless, Memo Shows

Days before lawyers allied with Donald Trump gave a news conference promoting election conspiracy theories, his campaign had determined that many of those claims were false, court filings reveal.

[unclevlad]

Just saw that one myself.  For a lawyer, I believe this constitutes a prima facie ethics code violation.  It punctures ANY defense that the suits were believed to be legit.

 

The problem may be proving who beyond a few campaign staffers knew about it...so it may not have any real significance.

 

And hey, it doesn't surprise anyone here in the slightest, right?

[csyphrett]

Not really. It goes back to the conspiracy case in Georgia that the judge threw out because of the motion

CES

[archer]

Ukraine's president compares UN to 'a retired superhero

 

He argues that the organization doesn't do anything and just looks on from the sidelines while countries like Russia, which guaranteed the sovereignty of Ukraine's borders forever in the 1990's, invaded and seized a large part of the country in the 2000's.

 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/573543-ukraines-president-compares-un-to-a-retired-superhero?rl=1

 

One of the commenters observed:

 

"He's not wrong. UN is toothless now..."

 

So I replied:

 

"When did it ever have teeth? Until there's a United Nations Tribunal on International Law which sends out heavily armed agents to deal with nations, leaders, or rogue actors who get out of line, there won't be any international defenders of freedom."

 

 

[Ranxerox]

9 hours ago, archer said:

 

"When did it ever have teeth? Until there's a United Nations Tribunal on International Law which sends out heavily armed agents to deal with nations, leaders, or rogue actors who get out of line, there won't be any international defenders of freedom."

 

 

 

Yes, where is UNTIL when you need them?

[BarretWallace]

12 hours ago, archer said:

 

 

"When did it ever have teeth? Until there's a United Nations Tribunal on International Law which sends out heavily armed agents to deal with nations, leaders, or rogue actors who get out of line, there won't be any international defenders of freedom."

 

 

Until there's UNTIL...I'm embarrassed to admit it, but it took me a while for that joke to sink in.  Can I blame middle age?

[unclevlad]

36 minutes ago, BarretWallace said:

Until there's UNTIL...I'm embarrassed to admit it, but it took me a while for that joke to sink in.  Can I blame middle age?

 

No.  No, you can't.

 

Insufficient caffeination, however, may be a defensible position.  Even for a kid like you.

[TrickstaPriest]

hmm

 

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/2021/09/15/did-defense-secretary-lloyd-austin-order-court-martial-covid-vaccine/8336999002/

[Lord Liaden]

16 hours ago, archer said:

 

"When did it ever have teeth? Until there's a United Nations Tribunal on International Law which sends out heavily armed agents to deal with nations, leaders, or rogue actors who get out of line, there won't be any international defenders of freedom."

 

 

 

Digression, but it's sort-of political: I've often heard the remark that the concept of a United Nations that's actually effective at maintaining world peace and security is less realistic than superheroes and supervillains. The average comic-book Earth has faced multiple invasions from alien planets and other dimensions; rampages by gods and cosmic entities; global terrorist organizations with the resources of a good-sized first-world country; and repeated crises that could destroy the human race or the whole planet. In such a situation the nations of the Earth have had the need for cooperation for mutual survival repeatedly shoved in their faces.

[archer]

8 hours ago, BarretWallace said:

Until there's UNTIL...I'm embarrassed to admit it, but it took me a while for that joke to sink in.  Can I blame middle age?

 

Did you at least pick up on the product placement?

 

 

[Cygnia]

At every step of the way, right-wing media provided the pretext for Trump’s attempted coup