Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

I continue to hold that this is a process of correction our entire civilization has needed for a long time. The pendulum swings. Most of us here living in developed countries grew up during a period of unprecedented peace and prosperity, which was unlikely to last. But this will almost certainly get worse before it gets better, because history suggests that the human race, collectively, has to start to drown before they're motivated to start learning to swim.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I continue to hold that this is a process of correction our entire civilization has needed for a long time. The pendulum swings. Most of us here living in developed countries grew up during a period of unprecedented peace and prosperity, which was unlikely to last. But this will almost certainly get worse before it gets better, because history suggests that the human race, collectively, has to start to drown before they're motivated to start learning to swim.

 

Humans...especially Americans...only respond to catastrophe. Sigh....

[Iuz the Evil]

This is still a period of unprecedented peace and prosperity, from a historic perspective. Some things are inarguably worse, to my sensibilities, but 90% of humanity is not living in extreme poverty which was true only 125 years ago. Murder is also historically low, we have managed to avoid wars between the great powers since Southeast Asia (although the lower intensity conflicts around the globe remain and have gone up and down since then). Heck, some of the things we complain about fervently are not matters of life or death - they’re an expression of emotional reaction or affiliation or “triggering” experience.

I had typed a lot more, but suffice it to say that from a human history perspective these are pretty good times by most metrics. And there is a long way to go…

[Pariah]

So, synthesizing the last few responses, it seems like the fact that we have so many nice things is the reason we can't have nice things.

 

Strangely enough, I'm totally on board with this explanation.

[Cygnia]

'Dozens' of Oregon cops have joined the Oath Keepers since 2009: leaked records

[Ragitsu]

15 hours ago, Cancer said:

re: ___ is theft ...

 

https://sharpknivespunk.bandcamp.com/releases

 

 

Thank you for the hyperlink? Still, I find it difficult to accurately articulate just how much I despair when I discover that someone I used to associate with has apparently fallen down the libertarian rabbit hole. A part of me wonders if they wouldn't have succumbed had I or someone else on the same wavelength played a greater role in their life.

[Lectryk]

3 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

Thank you for the hyperlink? Still, I find it difficult to accurately articulate just how much I despair when I discover that someone I used to associate with has apparently fallen down the libertarian rabbit hole. A part of me wonders if they wouldn't have succumbed had I or someone else on the same wavelength played a greater role in their life.

 

No.  Unless you spent all of your time with them (work, private, etc) and never left them alone.  You don't know where those influences that affected this person came from, you don't know what they might have believed to begin with that might make them susceptiable, and you may only know about some of the life changes they've faced that led to this change.  You aren't responsible for their changes, and don't take the responsibility on for 'not being there when...'.  You've seen the stuff about spouses being surprised about their partner's turn?  Yeah, don't hold yourself to a higher standard than one involving a person you are joined with.

 

People in this space (libertarian, Oath Keepers, Q Anons, crazy believers in...) don't suscribe to the consensus reality, but to the little slice their in-group has created.  All you can do, as multiple articles/essays/thought pieces posted here have said, is to let them reach their own realization that they are incorrect in their belief set.  And so much of that belief set is about actualizaton, ego fulfillment and so on, that returning from that space is hard. 

 

Offer/don't offer friendship while avoiding polarizing topics?  That's up to you.  But don't take blame/responsibility for them not avoiding their change.

 

[DShomshak]

It's cold consolation, perhaps, but perhaps it's worth reflecting that the UK has seen only two murders of MPs in the last 5 years? The Brits, and we Yanks, are still not good at political violence. Perpetrators are being hunted and punished, instead of being openly shielded by those in power.

 

The MPs I've heard on BBC seem determined that they will not give up meeting their constituents in these "surgeries." One was very firm in saying that his job was to represent his people to the government, not the government to his people, like some "Proconsul from Westminster" shielded by metal detectors and armed guards frisking everyone who dares comes near.

 

Dean Shomshak

[tkdguy]

I think the MPs should continue their constituent surgeries; our elected officials do have town hall meetings. But security needs to be beefed up. Politicians in the USA have bodyguards; I'm surprised the UK ministers don't. After all, they can be attacked anywhere.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

So this infrastructure bill has been cut back so much that I don't even see why they're freaking bothering with it anymore. The reduced bill will be inadequate and will just be used as evidence of failure in the mid terms and the next presidential election. As usual, progressives compromise while the Right gives up....nothing. It'd be nice if sanity, justice, and progress won once in a while. Sigh....I'm so tired of being disappointed in America.

[TrickstaPriest]

 

How is the infrastructure bill on climate? 😕

[Lectryk]

52 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

So this infrastructure bill has been cut back so much that I don't even see why they're freaking bothering with it anymore. The reduced bill will be inadequate and will just be used as evidence of failure in the mid terms and the next presidential election. As usual, progressives compromise while the Right gives up....nothing. It'd be nice if sanity, justice, and progress won once in a while. Sigh....I'm so tired of being disappointed in America.

 

You'd rather see nothing at all, than something? 

 

I wouldn't call 1.9 TRILLION in new spending a cut back, I'd call it a good start; this is all new spending, spending that doesn't exist right now, spending that will help Americans.  If the Democrats can deliver on that, they can springboard off that success in the second half of his term and get another 2 trillion in new spending.  Haven't you ever heard the quote 'The art of politics is the possible...'?  Or, 'Half a loaf is better than none'?  If everything and the kitchen sink isn't possible right now, then cut back til something is - your party can do whatever it wants, ffs - they control the entire process (until the mid term losses caused by their inability to deliver anything)!   They don't need Republicans!  Republicans aren't the problem here!  But the Democrats sure are a long way down the road to getting nothing at all, which will hurt America more than not passing SOME amount of new spending to address SOME of the the issues Progressives claim to care about.  

 

You want to be disappointed in something?  Be disappointed in the Progressives who demand so much, they kill the chances of getting progress.  Because it's not America cutting their chances this term, it's themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

[wcw43921]

Judge imposes harsher sentence than requested on man accused of encouraging U.S. Capitol rioters

[Pariah]

So people of color get longer sentences, even when they're conservatives? Interesting.

[unclevlad]

Judge's reasoning, from the end of the article:

 

Quote

But Chutkan of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, said that while Smocks claimed to have served in the U.S. military, no official record could be found to confirm this, that Smocks had an extensive criminal history, and that he had an apparent "inability to live a law abiding life."

 

"He does not appear to have any genuine remorse for his actions," Chutkan said.

 

If you accept that reasoning, then a few months off the streets sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

[death tribble]

On 10/16/2021 at 8:04 PM, tkdguy said:

I think the MPs should continue their constituent surgeries; our elected officials do have town hall meetings. But security needs to be beefed up. Politicians in the USA have bodyguards; I'm surprised the UK ministers don't. After all, they can be attacked anywhere.

Ministers do. Ordinary MPs, which are the bulk of them, do not. If they are in Parliament or in the building designed for them they are protected but not on their own in their own constituencies. Two dead in the last decade is the anomaly. And we have only lost one PM to assassination and that was 200 years ago. Over 500 years ago we lost the head of state in battle (Richard III) and Parliament executed another over 350 years ago (Charles I).  We are not doing too badly. 650 MPs in total

[Pattern Ghost]

14 hours ago, Pariah said:

So people of color get longer sentences, even when they're conservatives? Interesting.

 

Judge also a person of color. She's probably just p****d off.

[Old Man]

17 hours ago, Pariah said:

So people of color get longer sentences, even when they're conservatives? Interesting.

 

Judge Chutkan has presided over several insurrection cases so far and has been consistently harsh in all of them.  She observes that most of the perps are being convicted of trespassing when in fact they are guilty of sedition, so a slap on the wrist would be inappropriate.

[csyphrett]

it's like going in and thinking you are getting Judge Wapner, but getting Judge Judy instead

CES

[Ragitsu]

Have any of you ever received those fire-and-brimstone religious fliers in your mailbox? I was sent this intricately Photoshopped depiction of an apocalyptic-looking background with fairly standard "the end is nigh" imagery overall...but what REALLY stood out to me was - and I kid you not - Jesus Christ armed with a bow-and-arrow while he sits astride a horse. If I'm able to locate this cartoonishly hilarious piece of fundamentalist garbage, I'll take a picture and upload it here for everyone's amusement.

[Pariah]

A crossbow would be cooler. Especially one of those double-action crossbows like Rutger Hauer had in Ladyhawke.

[Lectryk]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/politics/sinema-veterans-quit-advisory-board/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

 

 

[Hugh Neilson]

On 10/22/2021 at 9:45 PM, Pattern Ghost said:

 

Judge also a person of color. She's probably just p****d off.

Interesting that the article identifies the convicted individual as Black, but does not mention the racial status of the judge.  Thank you for that addendum.

[Pariah]

12 hours ago, Lectryk said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/politics/sinema-veterans-quit-advisory-board/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

 

Proof yet again that the Democratic Party's greatest opposition is, in fact, other Democrats.

[Lord Liaden]

5 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Interesting that the article identifies the convicted individual as Black, but does not mention the racial status of the judge.  Thank you for that addendum.

 

Implicit lies by exclusion are the least egregious tactics of disinformation widely employed today.