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Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)


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6 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

In actuality, even if we made major political advancements tomorrow and accomplished incredible bursts of technology, the very requirements to build and spread and incorporate those tools and advancements, I do not believe it would be soon enough to prevent widespread shortages to the American population.  When you add the lag time on the symptoms of climate change from the causes of it to the time to incorporate any new technologies, it will be thirty to forty years for it to even slow down.

 

That is why I have more hope for fictional space elves than I do our very real movers-and-shakers.

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13 minutes ago, Iuz the Evil said:

It’s interesting to hear the exact same arguments being produced by those aforementioned right wing militias regarding the American Revolution and political change come up around climate change and social justice issues. 

 

Much of the right-wing militias are about fear of 'racial replacement', foreign influences, other factors you want to quantify.  If you want to claim climate change isn't real or won't threaten to collapse modern society, boy do I have some information for you.

 

edit: sorry, in reflection 'you' is unfair.  I was saying that because it rolls off the tongue, not to be rude to you specifically.  After all, we agree on this on a pragmatic level.

 

Is the right-wing militias arguments valid?

 

1) influx of Mexicans was highest from 1980-2010, and slowed down between 2010 to 2020.  Not that this is what you'd get if asked, but that's what the official data appears to be.  Fear of 'whiteness being bred out' is madness not just because of the fear of the consequences being ludicrous, but we'll have naturally born blue hair designer babies before 'whiteness is bred out'.

2) foreign influences are a problem.  They exist for every nation.  Grow up.

3) eco fascism?  why should we provide the right-wing militias with the resources over anyone else?  seems like advocacy for a king (or group) to hoard all the goods and 'trust' they'll be fair.  Or beneficial to me.  Right.

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I’m thinking there’s differences in the quality of the arguments, but “that’s the basis of America’s founding” as an excuse for mayhem has been a rather tired trope for many years. An appeal to historic revolution as a valid application of force for modern political change appears identical, irrespective of the argument behind it.

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Absolutely, this evening I’ll find my post earlier the last time this came up. Engage in local politics, lean in on democracy, and expect accountability from your government especially at the local level. State and Federal politicians come up from local levels, people as a whole don’t pay attention to your Board of Supervisors, City Council and so forth. Hold them accountable and take action when they don’t do the right thing. It works, it has always worked, and without that we get the government we deserve.

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7 minutes ago, Iuz the Evil said:

Absolutely, this evening I’ll find my post earlier the last time this came up. Engage in local politics, lean in on democracy, and expect accountability from your government especially at the local level. State and Federal politicians come up from local levels, people as a whole don’t pay attention to your Board of Supervisors, City Council and so forth. Hold them accountable and take action when they don’t do the right thing. It works, it has always worked, and without that we get the government we deserve.

 

Absolutely agree with Iuz, and he's probably doing more than I have on this very issue because of that.  It's also why I do respect "Beau of the Fifth" at least to an extent - I don't necessarily trust or believe him, but he's much more constructive than destructive.  Giving people the tools to act is vital.  It's also why I wholly agree, appealing to the 'American Revolution' does ignore a lot of context.  Violence is the last resort, and when it's the first it shows a lack of willingness to try.

 

My feelings on property damage, harm in general, is that it's bad.  That doesn't mean I equivocate the causes, or not listen to the messages, but it's inherently destructive.  Even to its own cause, it's inherently destructive.

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The Jan. 14, 2022 episode of "On the Media" was devoted to the question of whether the US is heading toward civil war, from a few different viewpoints -- including the accusation that even suggesting the possibility makes it more likely. Or, conversely, that such dire possibilities must be raised in order to forestall them, and the greater danger lies in saying, "No, it can't happen here."

 

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/452538775/on-the-media

 

Prof. Barbara F. Walters added information on militias as a harbinger of civil war: She clarified that it's specifically militias based on identity -- tribal, ethnic, sectarian -- rather than ideology. Examples include the Catholic and Protestant militias that grew in Northern Ireland before the Troubles: There was a political division, yes, but it was bound to which group would dominate the other.

 

Walters also ascribed equal weight to political parties based on identity... and noted that the current Republican Party is 90% white, and hardly even pretends to try reaching out to other groups.

 

(The final segment, of two historians who've written a book, "The Bright Age," challenging narratives about Europe's Dark Age, was also interesting.)

 

Dean Shomshak

Dean Shomshak

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Oh, and one of the "On the Media" guests cited research that peaceful protest has a better success rate than violence. I also recall Scientific American ran an article claiming this, a year or two ago.

 

Of course, peaceful protest only works if the government actually cares how it's seen. As Syria and Belarus have shown, peaceful protest doesn't work in states whose rulers consider their population expendable, and don't give a rat's ass who sees their crimes.

 

Dean Shomshak

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Very widely reported a couple days ago, but perhaps largely under the radar for most of us here...

 

DirecTV is not going to renew the contract with One America Network.  The contract expires in April.  Believe Reuters originally mentioned that DirecTV is the major revenue source for OAN.  

 

The usual suspects are claiming left-wing bias and censorship, of course.

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22 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Oh, and one of the "On the Media" guests cited research that peaceful protest has a better success rate than violence. I also recall Scientific American ran an article claiming this, a year or two ago.

 

Of course, peaceful protest only works if the government actually cares how it's seen. As Syria and Belarus have shown, peaceful protest doesn't work in states whose rulers consider their population expendable, and don't give a rat's ass who sees their crimes.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

There lies the problem. As accountability for our governing apparatus is at an all time low...they no longer care what the "masses" think. It's maddening.

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And in yet another demonstration of the class and grace for which Fox News is so well known...

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/vindictive-laura-ingraham-scorched-for-cheering-mark-milleys-covid-diagnosis

 

 

37 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

There lies the problem. As accountability for our governing apparatus is at an all time low...they no longer care what the "masses" think. It's maddening.

 

But let's also recognize that "the masses" LIKE them...at least a major fraction of them.  That's why the accountability has broken down.  

 

And on both sides of the aisle, I think it's fair to say that the fear of the opposition is far, far greater than the anger at...well, almost any action.  

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1 minute ago, Lord Liaden said:

Donald Trump persuaded his supporters that bullying equals strength, bragging equals success, and mocking and insulting someone counts as a victory.

 

Both major factions in the US were on this track long before Trump ran for office. He's more of a symptom, IMO. He's what you get when you get the government you deserve.

 

The US left civil discourse by the wayside years before Trump. Yet, during all of those years, the reasonable people, who could still manage to disagree amicably, and would point to the louder elements on their "side" of the political spectrum and say "that's not me" . . . didn't get off their behinds and vote.

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16 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

There lies the problem. As accountability for our governing apparatus is at an all time low...they no longer care what the "masses" think. It's maddening.

As an addendum to my earlier posts: Prof. Walters suggested two things that could avert a Second American Civil War. One was regulating social media, whose current business model involves radicalizing its users. The other is voting. The Republican party wouldn't be working so hard to nullify voting if they really thought they had a lock and didn't have to care anymore. Though I admit, at this point I don't see what can get nonvoting citizens off their asses and out to the polls.

 

Dean Shomshak

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About a week and a half ago, the mayor of Salt Lake County issued a mask mandate to help combat the spread of the omicron COVID-19 variant. Summit county (where Park City is located) issued one last week.

 

The Utah State Legislature began their 2022 session yesterday. Their first item of business? Legislation to overturn these mandates and to ensure that no others can be issued. 

 

Sadly, I have neither torch not pitchfork handy.

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Seriously, though, is there ANY chance we cold get Mexico to take Texas back? I mean, it's not like the US ever lived up to the terms of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, so we could theoretically claim that the treaty is null and void and that Texas was never really our problem to begin with.

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