Jump to content

Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)


Simon

Recommended Posts

On 1/31/2022 at 7:50 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Much is being made by commentators and pundits of Trump having stated during that rally that Mike Pence could have "overturned the election" and "changed the election result."  Besides the fact that Pence did not have the constitutional authority to refuse to count the votes by states' electors, Trump's words indicate that he knew that Joe Biden had won, and that Trump tried to create a different outcome which would ignore the legitimate lawful vote by the American people. This is saying the quiet part out loud in a way that might redound legally against Trump, but that's far from the first thoughtless remark he's made. It probably won't sway his hard core loyalists, but the growing number of former Trumpists on the fence about him might just be pushed over by this.

 

MSNBC is playing up the remark on its afternoon and evening shows.

 

Reportedly, FOX isn't covering that remark at all.

 

Haven't taken the time to look in on other news networks.

 

It's not the first time he's admitted he's lost (denying he lost isn't a crime). But I think it is the first time he admitted he knew he lost in the context of admitting that he was trying to overturn the election (which is a crime).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, archer said:

Reportedly, FOX isn't covering that remark at all.

 

 

Exactly what I expected.

 

The remark isn't going to do a thing in terms of popularity, and he's already done such things as vaguely threaten someone on the witness stand live through twitter, so... when the House changes, it seems guaranteed all will be forgiven.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So Trump released an official statement suggesting that, among other things, Pence should be investigated for not sending back the votes?  Is he saying Pence had no choice but to refuse it?  Because that seems... like a questionable statement.  Either Pence 'had the right' to do so (and chose not to), or he didn't... if Pence needs to be investigated for choosing not to, is that because throwing out the votes should have been considered a presidential order?  >_>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

VPs tend to also run for Pres later.  So if a VP is given the right to overturn an election, what's to stop a party from maintaining their President for two terms using the VP as a spoiler, then having the VP run and act as a spoiler for their own election, assigning a VP from their party, and doing it again?  Forever?

 

Well, obviously, they totally could have if they were geniuses like Trump.  They just weren't smart enough. /s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Ranxerox said:

Well, obviously, they totally could have if they were geniuses like Trump.  They just weren't smart enough. /s

 

I mean, fundamentally, people don't care what the rules are, they just want 'what benefits me'.  So they don't care what the excuse is, as long as it shoehorns 'their' president back in.  If he stays in forever?  Great!

 

Except what it really does is give 'their guy' every reason to seize power and utterly abandon them... the whole point of a Democracy is to make the leadership dependent on the people to maintain their job, not vice versa.  Reversing that means the powerful can do whatever they want, the people would have no choice but to take it or fight... and fighting seems unlikely against a modern army.  FLIR makes all those scenes from the movies, with the plucky heroes peeking up over the hill or hiding in the forest, laughable.

 

On top of that, 'their guy' in this case is just a few years younger than Biden, which means he wouldn't be around long... and the next guy will happily use the path they laid to stay in power, cause that's how the mechanism would work.

 

This comes from the same mindset that the government 'wants' people to wear masks... to control them... somehow... because people are so obedient... and would obey... wearing masks ...and blocking facial recognition... ... one of the most useful technologies for the autocratic state... ... ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lead para from NYT story:

 

Quote

WASHINGTON — The Republican Party on Friday officially declared the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol and events that led to it “legitimate political discourse,” formally rebuking two lawmakers in the party who have been most outspoken in condemning the deadly riot and the role of Donald J. Trump in spreading the election lies that fueled it.

 

We've discussed whether the Trumpist election refulsal etc. was considered socially acceptable?

 

There is no more question.  If one of the only two mainstream parties does this, the answer is Yes.

 

EDIT:  I'll amend this slightly.  I'll stick by it unless a significant fraction of registered Republicans leave the Party.  Because this is a line in the sand move on their part, IMO.  You cannot call this "legitimate political discourse" while asserting you support democracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

There is no more question.  If one of the only two mainstream parties does this, the answer is Yes.

 

More legitimate political discourse

 

https://occupydemocrats.com/2020/09/21/republican-senator-runs-bizarre-dark-new-ad-featuring-attila-the-hun-joking-about-killing-liberal-scribes/

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe Cheney doesn't need the RNC. 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-endorsed-challengers-lag-incumbent-republicans-fundraising/story?id=82628482

 

Quote

Most notably, Rep. Liz Cheney -- with backing from both establishment Republicans and moderate Democrats -- has broken her own fundraising records, despite being the most high-profile Republican on Trump's 2022 hit list.

The Wyoming Republican reported raising more than $2 million in just the final three months of last year, bringing her 2021 fundraising total to $7.2 million. Her Trump-endorsed primary challenger, Harriet Hageman, raised less than half of Cheney's fourth-quarter haul during the same period, reporting just over $745,000.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Pariah said:

According to the RNC, the only loose cannons in Congress are Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney.

 

That's just because they aren't anchored to the sinking ship.

 

3 hours ago, Ternaugh said:

 

It will be a victory of sorts if Trump-endorsed candidates fall in droves during the primaries, either to challengers for Republican candidacy or to Democrat opponents on election day. Trump and Trumpism need to be discredited as a viable route to victory, and Trump's influence over the GOP needs to be undercut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

That's just because they aren't anchored to the sinking ship.

 

 

It will be a victory of sorts if Trump-endorsed candidates fall in droves during the primaries, either to challengers for Republican candidacy or to Democrat opponents on election day. Trump and Trumpism need to be discredited as a viable route to victory, and Trump's influence over the GOP needs to be undercut.

What terrifies me are the "everyday citizens" who WANT Trump's poison.  Here in OH, we've got a race between two Republicans who're whining that their opponent isn't Trumpian ENOUGH! :mad:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, DShomshak said:

According to All Things Considered, the RNC backpedaled and said that the "legitimate political discourse" meant the various Trump aides whom the committee has called to testify. Pardon me if I have my doubts.

 

Dean Shopmshak

 

As Pariah points out, since the RNC is still censuring Cheney and Romney for the grievous sin of seeking the truth, their backpedaling only makes things worse IMO.  To paraphrase Doyle Lonnegan:  not only are they bootlickers, they're gutless bootlickers.

 

Huh.

That's probably redundant, isn't it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, the membership of the RNC isn't a mystery.
https://gop.com/about-our-party/rnc-members/


Take Toni Anne Dashiell, one of the three members from Texas.

She is president of Dashiell Properties, Inc., Property Management Firm according to her bio at the RNC. That company's webpage is here: https://www.dashiellproperties.com/about-us

It lists the company address as

DASHIELL PROPERTIES, INC.
143 Spanish Pass
Boerne, TX 78006

Phone: 830-488-7509
Email: tonianne@dashiellproperties.com

It occurs to me that if Republican activists can have legitimate political discourse at one place of work that Democrat activists could have legitimate political discourse at some other place of work.

I mean, that's how legitimate political discourse works, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it isn't. Sauce for the goose is emphatically not sauce for the gander. Tempting though it may be to see how prominent Republicans enjoy being threatened by screaming maniacs or receiving anonymous death threats by phone or email, I would never recommend that, even in sarcasm.

 

For one thing, it would reinforce their own myths, that it's really the evil liberal Democrats who are the violent extremists and they are just defending themselves or giving as they've gotten.

 

There is *no* chance that any Trump-fawning conservative would see the irony, because the core of conservatism is different rules for different people. As one person I heard recently summarized it: Laws exist to protect some people, without binding them, and to bind other people, without protecting them. It fpollows that lawless violence by their side is patriotic resistance to tyranny, while lawless violence by the other side is mob anarchy.

 

And just as a practical matter, the Left + Center + Moderately Right can never be as good at political violence as the Far Right. It's an intrinsic part of their tribalist worldview. Under attack, they'll just find validation and double down.

 

I feel the temptation too, but... No. <sigh>

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So attempts to mimic the BS in Ottawa failed in both Toronto and Vancouver.  In Toronto police shut down the attempted process with ease and in Vancouver, citizens had the COVIDiots corralled before the police could even arrive.  In Ottawa, well I'd call the Ottawa Police Service a bunch of Zapp Brannigans but they don't even talk a good game.  Efforts are being made but it's clear that the Ontario Provincial Police or the RCMP, or both, will have to be sent in for the mess in Ottawa to be handled competently.  I expect many "protesters" to be arrested before this is over and many members of the OPS to lose their jobs, at the very least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Twilight said:

So attempts to mimic the BS in Ottawa failed in both Toronto and Vancouver.  In Toronto police shut down the attempted process with ease and in Vancouver, citizens had the COVIDiots corralled before the police could even arrive.  In Ottawa, well I'd call the Ottawa Police Service a bunch of Zapp Brannigans but they don't even talk a good game.  Efforts are being made but it's clear that the Ontario Provincial Police or the RCMP, or both, will have to be sent in for the mess in Ottawa to be handled competently.  I expect many "protesters" to be arrested before this is over and many members of the OPS to lose their jobs, at the very least.

273414742_3069595776589549_4305379325955

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...