archer Posted February 2, 2022 Report Share Posted February 2, 2022 On 1/31/2022 at 7:50 PM, Lord Liaden said: Much is being made by commentators and pundits of Trump having stated during that rally that Mike Pence could have "overturned the election" and "changed the election result." Besides the fact that Pence did not have the constitutional authority to refuse to count the votes by states' electors, Trump's words indicate that he knew that Joe Biden had won, and that Trump tried to create a different outcome which would ignore the legitimate lawful vote by the American people. This is saying the quiet part out loud in a way that might redound legally against Trump, but that's far from the first thoughtless remark he's made. It probably won't sway his hard core loyalists, but the growing number of former Trumpists on the fence about him might just be pushed over by this. MSNBC is playing up the remark on its afternoon and evening shows. Reportedly, FOX isn't covering that remark at all. Haven't taken the time to look in on other news networks. It's not the first time he's admitted he's lost (denying he lost isn't a crime). But I think it is the first time he admitted he knew he lost in the context of admitting that he was trying to overturn the election (which is a crime). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted February 2, 2022 Report Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, archer said: Reportedly, FOX isn't covering that remark at all. Exactly what I expected. The remark isn't going to do a thing in terms of popularity, and he's already done such things as vaguely threaten someone on the witness stand live through twitter, so... when the House changes, it seems guaranteed all will be forgiven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted February 2, 2022 Report Share Posted February 2, 2022 National Butterfly Center on Texas border closing indefinitely after attacks from right-wing conspiracy theorists Joe Walsh, BarretWallace and TrickstaPriest 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted February 3, 2022 Report Share Posted February 3, 2022 So Trump released an official statement suggesting that, among other things, Pence should be investigated for not sending back the votes? Is he saying Pence had no choice but to refuse it? Because that seems... like a questionable statement. Either Pence 'had the right' to do so (and chose not to), or he didn't... if Pence needs to be investigated for choosing not to, is that because throwing out the votes should have been considered a presidential order? >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted February 3, 2022 Report Share Posted February 3, 2022 There is an old saying among my people: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bulls***." I can only assume that's what the former president is doing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted February 3, 2022 Report Share Posted February 3, 2022 35 minutes ago, Pariah said: There is an old saying among my people: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bulls***." I can only assume that's what the former president is doing right now yet again. Fixed that for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted February 3, 2022 Report Share Posted February 3, 2022 I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted February 3, 2022 Report Share Posted February 3, 2022 VPs tend to also run for Pres later. So if a VP is given the right to overturn an election, what's to stop a party from maintaining their President for two terms using the VP as a spoiler, then having the VP run and act as a spoiler for their own election, assigning a VP from their party, and doing it again? Forever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted February 3, 2022 Report Share Posted February 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said: VPs tend to also run for Pres later. So if a VP is given the right to overturn an election, what's to stop a party from maintaining their President for two terms using the VP as a spoiler, then having the VP run and act as a spoiler for their own election, assigning a VP from their party, and doing it again? Forever? Well, obviously, they totally could have if they were geniuses like Trump. They just weren't smart enough. /s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted February 3, 2022 Report Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ranxerox said: Well, obviously, they totally could have if they were geniuses like Trump. They just weren't smart enough. /s I mean, fundamentally, people don't care what the rules are, they just want 'what benefits me'. So they don't care what the excuse is, as long as it shoehorns 'their' president back in. If he stays in forever? Great! Except what it really does is give 'their guy' every reason to seize power and utterly abandon them... the whole point of a Democracy is to make the leadership dependent on the people to maintain their job, not vice versa. Reversing that means the powerful can do whatever they want, the people would have no choice but to take it or fight... and fighting seems unlikely against a modern army. FLIR makes all those scenes from the movies, with the plucky heroes peeking up over the hill or hiding in the forest, laughable. On top of that, 'their guy' in this case is just a few years younger than Biden, which means he wouldn't be around long... and the next guy will happily use the path they laid to stay in power, cause that's how the mechanism would work. This comes from the same mindset that the government 'wants' people to wear masks... to control them... somehow... because people are so obedient... and would obey... wearing masks ...and blocking facial recognition... ... one of the most useful technologies for the autocratic state... ... ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 Lead para from NYT story: Quote WASHINGTON — The Republican Party on Friday officially declared the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol and events that led to it “legitimate political discourse,” formally rebuking two lawmakers in the party who have been most outspoken in condemning the deadly riot and the role of Donald J. Trump in spreading the election lies that fueled it. We've discussed whether the Trumpist election refulsal etc. was considered socially acceptable? There is no more question. If one of the only two mainstream parties does this, the answer is Yes. EDIT: I'll amend this slightly. I'll stick by it unless a significant fraction of registered Republicans leave the Party. Because this is a line in the sand move on their part, IMO. You cannot call this "legitimate political discourse" while asserting you support democracy. Matt the Bruins, BarretWallace and TrickstaPriest 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 15 minutes ago, unclevlad said: There is no more question. If one of the only two mainstream parties does this, the answer is Yes. More legitimate political discourse https://occupydemocrats.com/2020/09/21/republican-senator-runs-bizarre-dark-new-ad-featuring-attila-the-hun-joking-about-killing-liberal-scribes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 According to All Things Considered, the RNC backpedaled and said that the "legitimate political discourse" meant the various Trump aides whom the committee has called to testify. Pardon me if I have my doubts. Dean Shopmshak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 I suppose it's a slightly hopeful sign that the RNC is still at least marginally concerned over the effects of misspoken words. But they used to only have to worry about the one loose cannon in the White House. Now Congress is littered with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 According to the RNC, the only loose cannons in Congress are Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney. Matt the Bruins and TrickstaPriest 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Maybe Cheney doesn't need the RNC. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-endorsed-challengers-lag-incumbent-republicans-fundraising/story?id=82628482 Quote Most notably, Rep. Liz Cheney -- with backing from both establishment Republicans and moderate Democrats -- has broken her own fundraising records, despite being the most high-profile Republican on Trump's 2022 hit list. The Wyoming Republican reported raising more than $2 million in just the final three months of last year, bringing her 2021 fundraising total to $7.2 million. Her Trump-endorsed primary challenger, Harriet Hageman, raised less than half of Cheney's fourth-quarter haul during the same period, reporting just over $745,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 3 hours ago, Pariah said: According to the RNC, the only loose cannons in Congress are Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney. That's just because they aren't anchored to the sinking ship. 3 hours ago, Ternaugh said: Maybe Cheney doesn't need the RNC. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-endorsed-challengers-lag-incumbent-republicans-fundraising/story?id=82628482 It will be a victory of sorts if Trump-endorsed candidates fall in droves during the primaries, either to challengers for Republican candidacy or to Democrat opponents on election day. Trump and Trumpism need to be discredited as a viable route to victory, and Trump's influence over the GOP needs to be undercut. wcw43921, Grailknight, Tom Cowan and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said: That's just because they aren't anchored to the sinking ship. It will be a victory of sorts if Trump-endorsed candidates fall in droves during the primaries, either to challengers for Republican candidacy or to Democrat opponents on election day. Trump and Trumpism need to be discredited as a viable route to victory, and Trump's influence over the GOP needs to be undercut. What terrifies me are the "everyday citizens" who WANT Trump's poison. Here in OH, we've got a race between two Republicans who're whining that their opponent isn't Trumpian ENOUGH! :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 16 hours ago, DShomshak said: According to All Things Considered, the RNC backpedaled and said that the "legitimate political discourse" meant the various Trump aides whom the committee has called to testify. Pardon me if I have my doubts. Dean Shopmshak As Pariah points out, since the RNC is still censuring Cheney and Romney for the grievous sin of seeking the truth, their backpedaling only makes things worse IMO. To paraphrase Doyle Lonnegan: not only are they bootlickers, they're gutless bootlickers. Huh. That's probably redundant, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 You know, the membership of the RNC isn't a mystery.https://gop.com/about-our-party/rnc-members/Take Toni Anne Dashiell, one of the three members from Texas.She is president of Dashiell Properties, Inc., Property Management Firm according to her bio at the RNC. That company's webpage is here: https://www.dashiellproperties.com/about-usIt lists the company address asDASHIELL PROPERTIES, INC.143 Spanish PassBoerne, TX 78006Phone: 830-488-7509Email: tonianne@dashiellproperties.comIt occurs to me that if Republican activists can have legitimate political discourse at one place of work that Democrat activists could have legitimate political discourse at some other place of work.I mean, that's how legitimate political discourse works, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 No, it isn't. Sauce for the goose is emphatically not sauce for the gander. Tempting though it may be to see how prominent Republicans enjoy being threatened by screaming maniacs or receiving anonymous death threats by phone or email, I would never recommend that, even in sarcasm. For one thing, it would reinforce their own myths, that it's really the evil liberal Democrats who are the violent extremists and they are just defending themselves or giving as they've gotten. There is *no* chance that any Trump-fawning conservative would see the irony, because the core of conservatism is different rules for different people. As one person I heard recently summarized it: Laws exist to protect some people, without binding them, and to bind other people, without protecting them. It fpollows that lawless violence by their side is patriotic resistance to tyranny, while lawless violence by the other side is mob anarchy. And just as a practical matter, the Left + Center + Moderately Right can never be as good at political violence as the Far Right. It's an intrinsic part of their tribalist worldview. Under attack, they'll just find validation and double down. I feel the temptation too, but... No. <sigh> Dean Shomshak Lord Liaden, L. Marcus, Pariah and 2 others 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 Yeah, doxxing isn't right or good, even against seemingly worthy targets. Opposing evil means being better than they are, not just better at using the same methods. L. Marcus and Iuz the Evil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 So attempts to mimic the BS in Ottawa failed in both Toronto and Vancouver. In Toronto police shut down the attempted process with ease and in Vancouver, citizens had the COVIDiots corralled before the police could even arrive. In Ottawa, well I'd call the Ottawa Police Service a bunch of Zapp Brannigans but they don't even talk a good game. Efforts are being made but it's clear that the Ontario Provincial Police or the RCMP, or both, will have to be sent in for the mess in Ottawa to be handled competently. I expect many "protesters" to be arrested before this is over and many members of the OPS to lose their jobs, at the very least. TrickstaPriest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 14 minutes ago, Twilight said: So attempts to mimic the BS in Ottawa failed in both Toronto and Vancouver. In Toronto police shut down the attempted process with ease and in Vancouver, citizens had the COVIDiots corralled before the police could even arrive. In Ottawa, well I'd call the Ottawa Police Service a bunch of Zapp Brannigans but they don't even talk a good game. Efforts are being made but it's clear that the Ontario Provincial Police or the RCMP, or both, will have to be sent in for the mess in Ottawa to be handled competently. I expect many "protesters" to be arrested before this is over and many members of the OPS to lose their jobs, at the very least. Old Man, Lawnmower Boy and Twilight 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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