Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, GM Joe said:

Oh, they have a whole menu to choose from based on the draft. Gay marriage, anti-sodomy laws, interracial marriage, contraception...

It seems clear to me that, if they aren't stopped, they'll get to them all, in time, and more.

And Democrats, in control of the other two branches of government, aren't even talking about eliminating the filibuster, let alone expanding the court.

All they're saying is to send them more money and vote harder (curiously, voting rights are another issue they've refused to use their power on).

Dems have had 50 years to codify abortion rights into law, but never did so.

Now they're saying that if we just wait until the next election and give them more money and vote for them, then this time surely they'll do what's needed.

I don't have a lot of hope for avoiding an increasingly fascist, anti-democratic future.

 

1 hour ago, Hermit said:

I will admit, the democratic party seems skittish about big steps but at this point, I think only big steps can course correct. Of course, the senate isn't as much theirs as they hoped it would be

 

The Democrats completely ceded the PR battle to the Republicans. The GOP has been on point with their messaging to their base, with mobilizing their allies in the media. They galvanized the reactionary segment of American society by selling them a vision of fear and hatred. With a few exceptions the Dems have been unwilling or unable to engage them on that level. This government actually has some significant achievements under its belt over the past two years, but for some reason doesn't trumpet them.

 

The Democratic Party isn't a monolith with a single philosophy. It's a coalition of differing political beliefs and agendas. It needs a unifier at the top with a vision and the willingness to fight for it. But the party chose a conciliator mired in old ways of doing things that aren't adequate to the present situation.

[TrickstaPriest]

Right to privacy is also on the chopping block.  Especially.

[Hermit]

2 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

 

The Democrats completely ceded the PR battle to the Republicans. The GOP has been on point with their messaging to their base, with mobilizing their allies in the media. They galvanized the reactionary segment of American society by selling them a vision of fear and hatred. With a few exceptions the Dems have been unwilling or unable to engage them on that level. This government actually has some significant achievements under its belt over the past two years, but for some reason doesn't trumpet them.

 

The Democratic Party isn't a monolith with a single philosophy. It's a coalition of differing political beliefs and agendas. It needs a unifier at the top with a vision and the willingness to fight for it. But the party chose a conciliator mired in old ways of doing things that aren't adequate to the present situation.

 

 

Very sadly I find myself nodding. 

1 minute ago, TrickstaPriest said:

Right to privacy is also on the chopping block.  Especially.

 

YUP. Terrifies me really. And the irony isn't lost on me in this situation

 

Supreme Court "The right to privacy was a bogus excuse! Roe vs Wade has no standing"

Also Supreme Court "Someone leaked our draft? That was PRIVATE! How dare they!"

 

 

[Cygnia]

Proud Boy Love and Racist Memes: New State Audit Uncovers Sickening Conduct by Calif. Police

[Joe Walsh]

1 hour ago, TrickstaPriest said:

Right to privacy is also on the chopping block.  Especially.

 

It seems so. The 'originalists' appear to be OK with (conditional) rights to privacy from the 1st, 3rd, and 5th Amendments, but their reading of the 9th and 14th Amendments seem to be pretty darned narrow when it comes to privacy.

 

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, TrickstaPriest said:

Right to privacy is also on the chopping block.  Especially.

 

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

-- Edward Snowden

 

[Pariah]

2 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

Right to privacy is also on the chopping block.  Especially.

 

Privacy? Does that even still exist?

[Lord Liaden]

It was pointed out to me that the Republicans have been campaigning on overturning Roe v Wade for many years. You'd expect them to be celebrating and claiming credit. Instead they're only complaining about the leak of the draft SCOTUS decision. No triumphal marches. It's almost as if they're aware that access to abortion is supported by the great majority of Americans, and ending that will cost the GOP heavily with women voters.

 

If the Democrats are smart they will jump on this, and hammer at linking Republicans with the end of legal abortions and all the tragic costs that come from that. If they're smart.

[Pariah]

11 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

If the Democrats are smart they will jump on this, and hammer at linking Republicans with the end of legal abortions and all the tragic costs that come from that. If they're smart.

 

Boy, are you optimistic. To reprise something I posted in the TV Quotes thread, "If liberals are so f*****g smart, how come they lose so g*****n always?!"

 

The Democratic Party is a train wreck. Even in the face of something as odious as the former president and his ongoing cult of personality, Party leaders can't help but fight amongst themselves over whether any given one of them is Progressive enough. It's like they don't understand that the perfect is the enemy of the good. They way they've run things since January 2021, I fully expect them to lose both the Senate and the House this November.

 

And that's a shame, because the GOP are collectively (if not individually) bat-guano crazy right now.

[Old Man]

10 hours ago, Cygnia said:

I need my uterus gone NOW.

 

Another form of contraception soon to be made illegal, I'm sure.

[Cygnia]

Just now, Old Man said:

 

Another form of contraception soon to be made illegal, I'm sure.

"You're just being *~SELFISH~* if you don't want kidz!"

[Old Man]

3 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

"You're just being *~SELFISH~* if you don't want kidz!"

 

I hope you haven't been on the receiving end of this, although it kind of sounds like you have.

 

I have kids.  They're mostly great.  But parenthood is not for everyone. 

[Lord Liaden]

57 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

"You're just being *~SELFISH~* if you don't want kidz!"

 

"So if I have a kid I don't want, you will selflessly raise it?"

 

2 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

Boy, are you optimistic.

 

 

I guess I should have written "if" underlined and all capitalized.

[Hugh Neilson]

Ban abstinence - those poor kids never had a chance!

[tkdguy]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

It was pointed out to me that the Republicans have been campaigning on overturning Roe v Wade for many years. You'd expect them to be celebrating and claiming credit. Instead they're only complaining about the leak of the draft SCOTUS decision. No triumphal marches. It's almost as if they're aware that access to abortion is supported by the great majority of Americans, and ending that will cost the GOP heavily with women voters.

 

If the Democrats are smart they will jump on this, and hammer at linking Republicans with the end of legal abortions and all the tragic costs that come from that. If they're smart.

 

3 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

Boy, are you optimistic. To reprise something I posted in the TV Quotes thread, "If liberals are so f*****g smart, how come they lose so g*****n always?!"

 

The Democratic Party is a train wreck. Even in the face of something as odious as the former president and his ongoing cult of personality, Party leaders can't help but fight amongst themselves over whether any given one of them is Progressive enough. It's like they don't understand that the perfect is the enemy of the good. They way they've run things since January 2021, I fully expect them to lose both the Senate and the House this November.

 

And that's a shame, because the GOP are collectively (if not individually) bat-guano crazy right now.

 

Mind if I quote you on these points next time I chat with fellow Democrats? I have been feeling this way for a long time, and it would help if I weren't the lone voice in this.

[unclevlad]

On the point of changing the number of Justices...thinking that will help at all is, IMO, naive.  The problem isn't the number of Justices;  it's that the Republicans have utterly politicized the confirmation process.  They're so far beyond hypocritical there, that it's hard to comprehend.  They don't care.  They're playing to win...within whatever definition of winning you think applies.  The Democrats don't.  So...fine, if you stack to, let's say, 15...try to do it now, and the Republicans will stall and stall and refuse to move...until THEY have the WH and Senate again.

 

The Republicans play tackle football;  the Democrats play flag football.  IMO it's pretty much as simple as that.  And it's that great a mismatch.  

 

Right now, I see no road forward, or at least not one that will last.  Partly because, it's not just the US;  the French election was another warning shot, with Le Pen getting a very worrisome number of votes.  The conservative leadership has a seemingly completely unshakeable base in many places like Texas and Florida, and they're doing much too good a job wrapping around the contested states like Michigan.  They have the courts to back...or at least, not impede...them.  They'll make deals with devils without batting an eye;  they might loathe Trump, but they refuse to repudiate him.  OTOH, Democrats have factional divides that cripple them...not just Sinema and Manchin, but also the younger, more progressive wing like AOC, that've made life in the House more difficult.

 

So anything the Democrats MAY get done...won't last more than a few years.  

[DShomshak]

Unfortunately, liberalism and conservatism are not arbitrary collections of policies. Psychological research shows they arise from fundamental differences of temperament. Conservatives are conservatives because they feel a deep emotional need to come together as a unified tribe with a canon of beliefs. (Declared to be eternal principles, even when they flip completely, as free markets were replaced by Trumpian protectionism.)  Liberals feel an equally deep need to assert themselves as individuals. (Even when they actually parrot the same slogans.) It enables greater compassion for outsiders, but less discipline in getting things done. "Power of the Herd" versus "Look at me, I'm special." The result is that while conservatives may argue for a while which direction to shoot, liberals tend to form circular firing squads.

 

See Mooney's The Republican Brain for more detailed exposition.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Pariah]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

The Republicans play tackle football;  the Democrats play flag football.  IMO it's pretty much as simple as that.  And it's that great a mismatch.  

 

I don't know if he still does - I can't see people's taglines whilst browsing in my phone - but Enforcer84 had a tagline that read something like "It's not that the Republicans are playing chess and the Democrats are playing checkers, it's that the Republicans are playing checkers and the Democrats are in the nurse's office because they've glued their balls to their thighs again." 

 

I have a fair idea who's driving the GOP (or GQP, take your pick) right now. I have no clear idea who's driving the Democrats, if anyone. 

[Asperion]

Both of the primary parties in America are a complete wreck. The main problem is that people are taught that to get anything done in this country,  we MUST approve someone who is in one of these parties.  There are other parties out there,  but very few people have ever heard of them (except for some unjustified bad reports). People should start looking into these other parties and reducing the power of the main parties. 

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Asperion said:

Both of the primary parties in America are a complete wreck. The main problem is that people are taught that to get anything done in this country,  we MUST approve someone who is in one of these parties.  There are other parties out there,  but very few people have ever heard of them (except for some unjustified bad reports). People should start looking into these other parties and reducing the power of the main parties. 

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/politics-july-dec04-third_parties

 

So there's a serious cap to how large any 3rd party can grow.  That's a situation both major parties have striven for, too.  

[Pariah]

The one thing on which Republicans and Democrats unerringly agree is that no third Party can ever be allowed to obtain real political power. For such a thing to happen would be an existential threat to the gravy train they've both ridden for decades.

[Pariah]

 

[Starlord]

[Ragitsu]

I don't think a conservative individual aging eight or ten years makes much difference when their mind is still sixty-five years in the past.

[unclevlad]

Oh my.

 

NM Attorney General Democratic primary is getting seriously, seriously ugly.  They're not slinging mud, even if it's soft and brown.

 

Postgame on TNT Inside the NBA...where Barkley made a seriously ill-timed unintentional pun that had everyone face-palming, but ya hadda see it...

 

There's 2 candidates.  Ads for each of em ran within a few minutes.

One has what might be a spliced podcast recording, the candidate purportedly pushing defunding the police.  

The other one blasts the other candidate's record as a prosecutor...asserting incompetence, favoritism, and the like.

 

The first ads I saw from both...Brian Colon is the one accused of supporting defunding the police.  His initial ads were really bad efforts to garner support.  Bad sob story, horrible presentation, ridiculous conclusion IMO.  He lost me real fast.  Raul Torrez started by pointing out he's the only one with courtroom experience, and doing something like the job of the AG.

 

This is round 2, and they went straight to the napalm....