Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Starlord]

11 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Leonard Leo, mastermind of the Federalist Society, architect of the current SCOTUS and the Dobbs Decision, and... 

 

...that resume plus his name alliteration equals supervillain?

[Twilight]

22 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

I have no words really. Absolutely disgusting. America creates this. Sigh....

And I'm afraid it's only going to get worse before it gets any better.  Especially since it seems a great many people don't seem to be interested in preventing it from getting worse.

[Twilight]

See what bothers me is that Israel and it's supporters have been swearing up and down that HAMAS has hidden tunnels to smuggle weapons and such into Gaza Strip, tunnels which Israel has yet to find.  So if HAMAS can smuggle weapons and other gear into Gaza without the Israelis noticing, wouldn't it stand to reason they could smuggle themselves out of Gaza Strip once their dirty deeds were done? I'm just saying, if the Israeli stories of smuggling tunnels are true and accurate the HAMAS agents would have little reason to actually stick around in Gaza would they? I mean it's a horrifying thought but maybe we have to address the possibility that the actual terrorists have already gotten away and the bombing is happening anyhow because the Israeli government just doesn't care?

[Simon]

Folks are starting to lose sight of the rules of this thread (@Twilight). Consider this a warning.

[DShomshak]

If there is one bit of news in the Gaza situation that gives me hope it won't spiral into maximum possible bad, it's what the BBC reporter in Israel (I think it was Tim Franks) said yesterday: In his interviews, Mr Franks finds that many Israelis do not hold all Palestinians, or even all Gazans, complicit in the attack by Hamas. They do not want to see collective punishment.

 

Some commentary I have seen seems to forget that neither Israelis nor Palestinians are hive minds, and I try to resist slipping into this myself.

 

Dean Shomshak

[unclevlad]

Jim Jordan fails to win the vote of 20 Republicans for Speaker, so...we still have no Speaker.  

 

How this is gonna go...no one knows.  Democratic challengers in swing districts are already using votes for Jordan as ammunition:

From a floor reporter:

 

Quote

I just spoke with Christina Bohannan, a Democrat who is challenging Mariannette Miller-Meeks in Iowa’s 1st congressional district. She views Miller-Meeks’s vote for Jordan as out of step with Iowans in her district. She notes that Jordan has never voted for a farm bill, which couldn’t be more critical to the state. And she notes that more than 60 percent of Iowans reject his extreme position in support of a nationwide abortion ban. Her comments are a reminder of how Democrats think that the chaos and extremism on display in the House will help them win back control in 2024.

 

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

If there is one bit of news in the Gaza situation that gives me hope it won't spiral into maximum possible bad, it's what the BBC reporter in Israel (I think it was Tim Franks) said yesterday: In his interviews, Mr Franks finds that many Israelis do not hold all Palestinians, or even all Gazans, complicit in the attack by Hamas. They do not want to see collective punishment.

 

Some commentary I have seen seems to forget that neither Israelis nor Palestinians are hive minds, and I try to resist slipping into this myself.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

One commentator I follow noted that the Israeli government has recently modified its rhetoric around this event. Initially they indicated they were planning swift, direct, and forceful retaliation. Now they're stating that they are considering multiple plans of response, suggesting that the initial heat of passion is starting to die down. Internationally, countries that expressed support for whatever course Israel would take immediately after the attack, are now calling for restraint and measured action, which may also be having an effect.

 

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

Jim Jordan fails to win the vote of 20 Republicans for Speaker, so...we still have no Speaker.  

 

How this is gonna go...no one knows.  Democratic challengers in swing districts are already using votes for Jordan as ammunition:

From a floor reporter:

 

 

Here to your North it looks like campaigning by Democrats has been rather lackluster and haphazard so far. Their biggest cause for optimism in 2024 appears to be how badly the Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Lord Liaden

[DShomshak]

Has anyone posted notice of this yet? There's so much news, I lose track but it matters.

 

https://www.pressherald.com/2023/10/16/judge-pushes-back-against-trumps-claims-that-gag-order-in-election-case-is-unfair/

 

I was amused that Judge Chutkan used almost the exact words UncleVlad did, that "no other criminal defendant would be allowed" to smear and attack prosecutors and court personnel as Trump has, "And I'm not going to allow it in this case.".

 

I can only speculate, but I would imagine that to Mr Trump, being told flat-out he isn't special must scald like acid. Assuming his ego even lets him hear the statement.

 

Dean Shomshak

28 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Here to your North it looks like campaigning by Democrats has been rather lackluster and haphazard so far.

So, same as usual. <eyeroll>

 

"I belong to no organized political party; I am a Democrat." -- Will Rogers

 

Dean Shomshak

Edited October 17, 2023 by DShomshak

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

Has anyone posted notice of this yet? There's so much news, I lose track but it matters.

 

https://www.pressherald.com/2023/10/16/judge-pushes-back-against-trumps-claims-that-gag-order-in-election-case-is-unfair/

 

I was amused that Judge Chutkan used almost the exact words UncleVlad did, that "no other criminal defendant would be allowed" to smear and attack prosecutors and court personnel as Trump has, "And I'm not going to allow it in this case.".

 

I can only speculate, but I would imagine that to Mr Trump, being told flat-out he isn't special must scald like acid. Assuming his ego even lets him hear the statement.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 

Didn't see it, but...honestly, I can't consider this news.  Not any more.  It's a given...as inevitable as sunrise and as predictable.  And after...how long now?  Rising to the level of reflexive...well, no later than the election fraud BS cases.  Probably before, but I have no desire to dredge back through the cesspool that is Trump's history to try to pinpoint a date.  

 

I think I stole those words...if not from her order, from articles reporting on the order.  Maybe not, but it's not like it's some deep philosophical revelation.

[tkdguy]

The question is what the judge will do when (not if, when) Trump defies the order yet again. I wish the judges did have the courage to sentence him to some sort of detention without any form of communication. Even a couple of days would send a message.

[Lord Liaden]

Jail would be unlikely, given the need for accommodating Trump's Secret Service detail. But house arrest is quite possible. And fines, as high and as many as the law allows - Trump's wallet is pretty light right now.

 

Is it legal for the court to confiscate all of Trump's Internet-enabled devices? Or to block access to his ISP(s)?

[tkdguy]

If he's in detention, barring all communication ought to be legal. Maybe the Secret Service could be relieved during his incarceration.  House arrest would be easier, but since he lives in a mansion, it's not much of a punishment. He's already trying to raise money to pay for whatever fines he may be imposed with.

[tkdguy]

Not sure if this will be effective, but no harm in trying

 

 

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, DShomshak said:

I was amused that Judge Chutkan used almost the exact words UncleVlad did, that "no other criminal defendant would be allowed" to smear and attack prosecutors and court personnel as Trump has, "And I'm not going to allow it in this case.".

 

Come to think of it, I've never seen unclevlad and Judge Chutkan in the same place at the same time...

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, tkdguy said:

If he's in detention, barring all communication ought to be legal. Maybe the Secret Service could be relieved during his incarceration.  House arrest would be easier, but since he lives in a mansion, it's not much of a punishment. He's already trying to raise money to pay for whatever fines he may be imposed with.

 

The Secret Service coverage is part of being a former President.  Trump can waive it, but until he does, it's pretty hard to see it getting removed.  And Trump's never going to let it go.

 

If Trump is convicted of fraud...there, I don't know.  It'd be unknown territory, but the Secret Service protection *for life* is embodied into Federal law.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act

 

But we haven't had a president convicted of anything.  Yet.

 

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Is it legal for the court to confiscate all of Trump's Internet-enabled devices? Or to block access to his ISP(s)?

 

In jail?  I think so.  House arrest?  Maybe, if Trump showed consistent, willful disregard for the gag order.  Probably not initially.  Some of this is the excellent wording of the judge's order...Trump can rant about Biden, about the government generally, about whatever he wants...as long as those rants are NOT connected to the case.  She nicely staked out her proper territory...and nothing more.

 

In other news, in the insane asylum on top of the hill, no second vote today.  Report is Jordan's needing more time to try to change enough votes, so no vote until at least tomorrow.  

[DShomshak]

7 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Didn't see it, but...honestly, I can't consider this news.  Not any more.  It's a given...as inevitable as sunrise and as predictable.  And after...how long now?  Rising to the level of reflexive...well, no later than the election fraud BS cases.  Probably before, but I have no desire to dredge back through the cesspool that is Trump's history to try to pinpoint a date.  

 

I think I stole those words...if not from her order, from articles reporting on the order.  Maybe not, but it's not like it's some deep philosophical revelation.

The article was in today's newspaper, so the gag order should be fairly new. OTOH the article mentioned this is the second narrow gag order placed on Trump, so judges may be using a standard phrasing. I'm not looking back to check, either.

 

Dean Shomshak

[csyphrett]

Judge Engoran put an order in to tell Trump to stop attacking his staff. Judge Chutkan put her order in. The judge in Colorado put in a protective order for witnesses because of Trump's behavior in September according to the story dateline that I found.

CES  

[unclevlad]

Yeah, I might be confusing which judges and which orders....

 

But in my defense, it's rather a lot to try to remember.....</snark>

[unclevlad]

Another Speaker vote today.

 

This time it's 22 votes for Not Jordan.  

 

I think this Air Jordan is leaking.....

 

What a *(@#$ mess....can we just expel the entire Freedom Caucus and move on?   

[BoloOfEarth]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

This time it's 22 votes for Not Jordan.  

 

He might have better luck if he just changes his first name to Not. 

 

[unclevlad]

House recesses after Jordan fails to convince people to shift.  More reports that his strong-arm tactics are making people more entrenched against him.  One of the member's wives was also apparently harassed..."your hubby will never win another election!"  SO not cool.

[Cygnia]

From my friend's FB feed...

 

Quote

"The House GOP would figure out a way to lose at Calvinball."

 

[unclevlad]

From NYT.  The story is about rising concern that this clown show is going to cost the Republicans the House in '24.

 

Quote

“It hurts the country; it hurts the Congress; it’s hurting our party,” said Representative Don Bacon of Nebraska, one of 18 Republicans who represent districts won by Mr. Biden in 2020. “It’s putting us in a bad hole for next November.”

 

He said his hard-right colleagues who moved to oust Speaker Kevin McCarthy earlier this month and touched off the intractable scramble to replace him “want to be in the minority.”

 

Mr. Bacon added: “I think they would prefer that. So they can just vote no and just yell and scream all the time.”

 

[Lord Liaden]

I think Don Bacon hit the nail on the head. Media attention is all the hard-right Republicans crave.

[unclevlad]

I will be even happier if it costs the worst of the MAGAts their seats...during the primaries.  That would be a much stronger message, IMO.