Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[csyphrett]

9 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Yeah, I might be confusing which judges and which orders....

 

But in my defense, it's rather a lot to try to remember.....</snark>

Trump has eight major cases going on, some of them he has already lost. And he has other people suing him over different things.

 

Judge Engoran is doing the fraud case in NY, and Trump has lost the first charge. The trial is about the other six charges and if he can be found guilty on those.

 

Judge Kaplan already ruled for E Jean Carrol to get five million in one law suit, and ruled that the second suit is settled except for the awarding of damages against Trump. (This is what I meant by Garland shoving Trump into the oven, because this second lawsuit was at one point being defended by the DOJ because of Bill Barr. And Garland was stuck with it for a bit, and then he said the DOJ is withdrawing the means of defense for Trump over that other case. When Jordan and the Judiciary Committee Republicans were going after Garland, they were all like why aren't you putting Hunter Biden in jail for life. None of them as far as I know asked why he reversed on Trump and let him lose that suit)

 

Judge Chutkan is doing the Jan 6 trial and has told Trump that he is going to trial in March no matter what. As many motions that can be filed will be answered but in March, it will be go time.

 

Judge Macavee (spell check here) is doing the Georgia trial about the election interference. When Chesbro and Powell said they wanted a speedy trial, he was like okay we're doing this next month (I think next week but I could be wrong). And so far he has dismissed all of Chesbro's motions to get out of trial. Everybody else said we're going to waive the speedy trial claim at that, and Scott Hall, one of the coconspirators has already flipped and been sentenced.

 

The Judge in Colorado that I mentioned up thread is handling a lawsuit to disqualify Trump from the Colorado ballot. Word is other groups are trying to do the same thing in other states. I don't remember when Trump is supposed to go to trial there but if either the GA trial or the Jan 6 trial finish before the complaints can finish this trial, then that stuff will be able to be used against Trump in this trial.

 

Alvin Bragg in New York has the criminal case against Trump for his tax stuff and Stormy Daniels under Judge Marchon. I don't know the status of this case. I think Micheal Cohen is supposed to give testimony against Trump for this but I am not sure.

 

Judge Cannon has the file stealing case in Florida. Popok and Miceallis are of the opinion that she is incompetent and has artificially delayed her trial. My read is that all of these other cases will be done before her first week of testimony is even in. So far she has been allowing top secret information to be read into the public record, not known how a grand jury works, and not known how classified documents transportation and holding works. She hasn't done anything to be asked to be recused, but she is not showing a lot of competence.

 

Also Trump tried  to file lawsuits against Cohen, Engranon, James of NY, and Willis of Georgia and he withdrew the claims.

CES

[csyphrett]

I feel like I missed some other court cases Trump is involved in, but I don't have any idea what it could be. I admit I don't know if Hilary got her money out of him for instance

CES 

[Lord Liaden]

They're very hard to keep track of when they multiply like rabbits. It's as if all of Trump's misdeeds over the past half-century are catching up to him at once.

[unclevlad]

Sidney Powell pleads guilty in Georgia.  6 year probation, minor fines...and agrees to testify against the rest of the defendants.

 

Cannon's had some of her rulings in the documents cases blown out of the water on appeal.  Yeah, I'm not surprised her grasp of procedure is.......less than complete.

 

EDIT:  Jim Jordan's now endorsing the move to give the Speaker Pro Tem the formal power to conduct normal House business through early January, which reads to me as a clear realization of the backlash risk next year.  NYT is saying some moderate Dems may be on board with it...and some Republicans feel like it's forfeiting power to the Dems.  There are various proposals out there, too, so who knows how this will pan out....

[unclevlad]

And of course, Jordan's buddies browbeat him to reverse course and continue pressing for Speaker.

 

I gotta think this is going to a) make the opposition even more adamant, and b) probably flip more votes AWAY from him.  

 

Anyone who would be affected by a government shutdown?  Start planning....and if you already did, get more serious about it.  This doesn't feel like it'll get resolved much before Halloween...and that's just not much time to get things through.  I also doubt another continuing resolution will pass.

[Old Man]

Seen in a political discussion on another forum:

 

Quote

Is it time to bring back dueling?

 

[Dr. MID-Nite]

9 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Sidney Powell pleads guilty in Georgia.  6 year probation, minor fines...and agrees to testify against the rest of the defendants.

 

Cannon's had some of her rulings in the documents cases blown out of the water on appeal.  Yeah, I'm not surprised her grasp of procedure is.......less than complete.

 

EDIT:  Jim Jordan's now endorsing the move to give the Speaker Pro Tem the formal power to conduct normal House business through early January, which reads to me as a clear realization of the backlash risk next year.  NYT is saying some moderate Dems may be on board with it...and some Republicans feel like it's forfeiting power to the Dems.  There are various proposals out there, too, so who knows how this will pan out....

 

The punishment was insultingly light. No time behind bars and fines so small she could pay them with her "fun money". 

[Pattern Ghost]

Given that Trump has doxed both the NY AG and Fani Willis recently, I think she may not be getting off that light when the pack turns on her.

[unclevlad]

57 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

The punishment was insultingly light. No time behind bars and fines so small she could pay them with her "fun money". 

 

Would you rather have Powell in jail...or Trump?  

 

And, I think we've got a definitive answer now, about whether the Republicans would be willing to work with anything that even sniffs of Democratic action.  The whole statement that giving additional powers to McHenry would be handing over control to the Democrats shows how dead that notion is.  Jordan is apparently going to call for a 3rd Speaker vote at 10 Eastern tomorrow morning;  I suspect he'll have more defectors.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

13 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Would you rather have Powell in jail...or Trump?  

 

It shouldn't be an either or situation. And I'm not at all convinced Trump is going to get anything more meaningful for all this dealing. I guess we'll see, but so far I'm just feeling our two tier system at work again and it's both tiresome and frustrating.

[csyphrett]

Trump was never going to get any real jail time. There is a threat of it in the GA case but mostly this has been about fining him and taking his money. He was never as rich as he said he was, and now that that has come out, other things are coming out to hurt his dealings. His donation machine has nearly broken from all the stress of paying his fees to his lawyers.

CES 

[unclevlad]

Plus, if Trump can be convicted of election interference, it seems plausible that could be used to toss him off more ballots.  Is it a stretch to say election interference counts as insurrectionist acts?  Maybe.  I could see, tho, Trump being barred from the ballot in Georgia.

 

 

[unclevlad]

3rd Speaker vote going on now.  About 320 votes into it...and 21 Not Jordan votes.  NYT commentary is at least 2 have switched away from him.

 

EDIT:  just the procedural niceties remain.  Jordan lost 3 votes in total.  One switch said this (from NYT):

 

Quote

Representative Tom Kean of New Jersey says in a statement he changed his vote because “it has become evident that Chairman Jordan does not and will not have the votes to become speaker.” “The People’s House must govern,” he said.

 

EDIT 2:  and now Jordan is out.  He lost a vote in the Republican caucus...next thing up will be another candidate forum, Monday night.  So there's 3 more days thrown away.  3 full weeks of this, and no indication anything can be resolved.

[unclevlad]

And in Georgia....another Trump lawyer pled guilty.  Again, one can argue his sentence...5 years' probation with the potential to reduce that to 3, and a small restitution amount...it's light.  But here's the deal:  this is now 2 of the lesser defendants.  One comment called this "prosecutorial eight ball."  Pocket one ball...Powell.  Get lined up for the next...Chesebro.  As the table gets cleared, generally the shots become easier to line up.  And now, there should be points where Powell and Chesebro can corroborate each other.  Trump's defense is getting harder all the time.

[csyphrett]

Chesebro pled out? Bro, he filed like ten motions to dismiss in a row, and the Judge was like you're not reading the law right for the motion. Let me explain the reason I am denying your motion to you.

CES  

[csyphrett]

Trump is being sued by the NAACP in DC. You will never guess who the judge is.

CES

[unclevlad]

And in the civil fraud case, Judge Engoron fines Trump $5000 for leaving the post about his clerk up, on his campaign web site.  It'd been pulled from Truth Social, but kept up on the campaign site until last night.  Engoron didn't rule Trump in contempt...yet...but this erases any "reasonable doubt" defense, or "I didn't know it was there."  The fine says, you're responsible for em, PERIOD.

[Cygnia]

18 minutes ago, csyphrett said:

Trump is being sued by the NAACP in DC. You will never guess who the judge is.

CES

*is paranoid it's Cannon*

*checks*

*is relieved*

[unclevlad]

Cannon's Florida, the NAACP case is in DC.

[Pattern Ghost]

Two American hostages released by HAMAS. Got from BBC video with a lot of editorializing in it, so no link. Qatar apparently helped broker the deal.

 

EDIT: Here's a CNN article with a decent level of details: https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/middleeast/hamas-us-hostages-released-intl/index.html

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Pattern Ghost

[wcw43921]

Florida Lawmaker Who Penned "Don't Say Gay" Law Sentenced To Prison For COVID Fraud

[Lord Liaden]

It's Florida, it's Republicans, and it's the DeSantis administration. There's nothing surprising here.

[csyphrett]

Harding is being represented by a Trump attorney which is cool because Trump has blown 37 million from his superpac on 60 law firms. So there was bound to be some kind of overlap in Florida.

 

CES  

[unclevlad]

And cripes, from the sound of it, he was incredibly naive about it.  I suspect he was figuring on herd camouflage;  I don't think we'll ever know how much fraud there was in the various relief programs.

 

And in Washington, reports suggest that the Republicans are falling apart even more, believe it or not.  Getting even more factionalized.  The moderates blame Gaetz et al. for bringing everyone to this point in the first place;  OTOH, some of Jordan's supporters are blaming them for refusing to support Jordan.  That's no surprise either way, of course;  too many on the hard right refuse to contemplate that people might not agree with them.

[csyphrett]

There are two kind of people in this world said the man with no name. me and them.

CES