Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

Sadly, a great many of us don't have the time to gain expertise in the many serious issues facing the world. We're too busy trying to look after ourselves and our families. We have to rely on people whose job it is to apprise themselves of those issues. That doesn't mean we shouldn't evaluate what we read and hear for whether it makes sense, and compare it with other sources of information.

 

Not so very long ago, the news media made an effort to be as objective and fact-based as possible, and to check the veracity of their sources before reporting a story. Commentators were more concerned with providing context than with selling an agenda. And politicians could end their careers if they were caught in an outright lie. Now many of them deliberately forego those simple ethics in favor of flashy headlines and talking points that draw people's attention and inflame them, because that benefits them. They've wholly abandoned their responsibility to the public, in ways that are transparent to anyone who actually thinks about what they're told. But that leaves us in doubt about anything we're told.

 

I remember the confidence and authority with which Walter Cronkite used to sign off his nightly newscast on CBS: "And that's the way it is." We believed him, and we had reason to.

[wcw43921]

I almost put this in the "Cool Guns" thread in the Dark Champions forum, but I figured it would fit better here instead.  For better or worse--here it is.

 

Ammo Vending Machines Installed In Oklahoma Grocery Stores

[DShomshak]

In France, the other parties pulled together, came up with a common message of the need to confront the far right and keep them out of power, and even withdrew candidates to ensure voters never had a three-way race that would split the vote against the far right. Boy howdy, it worked. And the French voters responded, with (BBC says) a surge in late voting as early reports spoke of low turnout that favored the right.

 

Here in the US... The report on NPR is not yet confirmed, but supposedly four more House Democrats have said that Biden should withdraw. Now, I'm just some guy (vide Doc Democracy's valuable distinction) but I suspect the Dems are busy creating the electoral defeat they fear, and it will be the whole party, not just Biden and the White House. Every claim of a new call for Biden to withdraw will be widely reported, because this is the most exciting and dramatic story to report, strengthening the impression among voters of an entire party in panic and collapse. How do you get people to turn out to vote for a party that seems convinced it will lose?

 

In contrast, Republicans have made clear they will back Trump no matter what. To me that projects moral bankruptcy, but to the common man that probably looks like strength of purpose.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Lord Liaden]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, either negatively or positively. It's four months until the election. Politically, that's an eternity.

[BoloOfEarth]

16 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, either negatively or positively. It's four months until the election. Politically, that's an eternity.

 

If four months until the election is an eternity, what are the four years *after* the election?   

[Old Man]

4 minutes ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

If four months until the election is an eternity, what are the four years *after* the election?   

 

I think that strongly depends on the outcome.

[Cygnia]

He said that there is no Democratic Party any more, just individual entrepreneurs. And the reason they are calling for Biden to step down is because they are worried about their own down-ticket elections, not because they are thinking about the big picture.

[tkdguy]

 

[Lord Liaden]

What matters to commentators versus voters:

 

 

Edited July 9 by Lord Liaden

[MrWolf]

I've said this before - the debate changed nothing for me.

 

I was never going to vote for Trump.

 

Do I know Biden is old?  Yes.  Do I know he has historically had a tendency to ... well... misspeak / make verbal mistakes?  Don't we all?  Some more than others, admittedly.

 

Is Trump old?  Yes.  Cough.  I'll leave aside other ... ah... factors there.

 

I don't vote for the Debater-in-Chief.  I vote for President.

 

I also don't think he should step aside at this time based on the information I have.

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I've said this before - the debate changed nothing for me.

 

 

For me, there is nothing that could make me vote for Trump.  Watching the debate would've only made me miserable, so I didn't.

 

I'm not convinced that the Lincoln Project's predictions would all come true......but I *do* believe many would, and relatively quickly.  Even if the Court overturns some of the moves...note that immunity doesn't mean some of the actions they mention would be legal...there would still be massive damage being done, and Trump would continue to sign illegal orders, no matter that they'd be overturned later, and use his toadies to push enforcement.

 

So even if their worst-case scenarios don't come about, I have no doubt that most of us would be feeling massive pain, and that many, many, many people would suffer direct consequences from deregulatory moves.

[tkdguy]

 

[unclevlad]

My lord, that was one excellent speech...forget the trivial delivery bobbles.  And the capstone was *brilliant.*

 

He didn't mention Trump at all, yet hammered home one of the fundamental, critical differences.

[Cygnia]

The Supreme Court’s Contempt for Facts Is a Betrayal of Justice

Quote

When the Supreme Court’s Ohio v. EPA decision blocked Environmental Protection Agency limits on Midwestern states polluting their downwind neighbors, a sad but telling coda came in Justice Neil Gorsuch’s opinion. In five instances, it confused nitrogen oxide, a pollutant that contributes to ozone formation, with nitrous oxide, better known as laughing gas.

You can’t make this stuff up. This repeated mistake in the 5-4 decision exemplifies a high court not just indifferent to facts but contemptuous of them.

Public trust in the Supreme Court, already at a historic low, is now understandably plunging. In the last four years, a reliably Republican majority on the high court, led by Chief Justice John Roberts, has embarked on a remarkable spree against history and reality itself, ignoring or eliding facts in decisions involving school prayer, public health, homophobia, race, climate change, abortion and clean water, not to mention the laughing gas case.

The crescendo to this assault on expertise landed in June, when the majority’s Chevrondecision arrogated to the courts regulatory calls that have been made by civil servant scientists, physicians and lawyers for the last 40 years. (With stunning understatement, the Associated Press called it “a far-reaching and potentially lucrative victory to business interests.” No kidding.) The decision enthrones the high court—an unelected majority—as a group of technically incompetent, in some cases corrupt, politicos in robes with power over matters that hinge on vital facts about pollution, medicine, employment and much else. These matters govern our lives.

The 2022 Kennedy v. Bremerton School District school prayer decision hinged on a fable of a football coach offering “a quiet personal prayer,” in the words of the opinion. In reality, this coach was holding overt post-game prayer meetings on the 50-yard line, ones that an atheist player felt compelled to attend to keep off the bench. Last year’s 303 Creative v. Elenis decision, allowing a Web designer to discriminate against gay people, revolved entirely on a supposed request for a gay wedding website that never existed that (supposedly) came from a straight man who never made the request. Again, you can’t make this stuff up. Unless you are on the Supreme Court. Then it becomes law.

 

[Cygnia]

Media lied to voters about the cause of President Biden’s subpar debate performance. The lie—described here in full—is unforgivable, and was intended to chill discussion of Trump’s cognitive decline.

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, Cygnia said:

Media lied to voters about the cause of President Biden’s subpar debate performance. The lie—described here in full—is unforgivable, and was intended to chill discussion of Trump’s cognitive decline.

 

Thanks for this--the media feeding frenzy has gotten way out of hand.  Biden could be literally dead and I'd still vote for him over his opponent, but it's nice that someone is finally showing that the media is up to no good.

[tkdguy]

Several commentators at YouTube have said the same thing about the media, stating that they're more interested in ratings than the country's welfare.

[Cygnia]

 

[Starlord]

1 hour ago, tkdguy said:

Several commentators at YouTube have said the same thing about the media, stating that they're more interested in ratings than the country's welfare.

 

All National news hasn't really been true journalism for at least 15 years...it's 24 hours a day of spin, propaganda, editorializing and opinions.

[DShomshak]

Even the BBC slips up. Yesterday, interviewing the former Deputy Secretary of NATO, the reporter talked about the 2%-GDP-for-defense pledge as "dues" for NATO, echoing Trumpian language. Um, no. This is money countries spend on their own behalf, right? Not sent somewhere else (though I'm sure everyone chips in a little to pay for NATO-specific operations, like keeping the lights on at NATO offices. But that ain't gonna be 2% of GDP.) Irritating.

 

In other matters: This is low-hanging fruit of op-ed, but at least it's good to see that some pundits are calling out Donald Trump's apparent cognitive decline -- and longstanding grotesque ignorance and pathological lying.

 

If ‘cognitively compromised’ is the criteria, I know who’s not getting my vote | Opinion (msn.com)

 

Dean Shomshak

[Starlord]

Many democratic politicians keep calling for Biden to step down - media can't shut up if you keep feeding it.  George Clooney helped raise $30 million for Biden a few weeks ago and has now reversed - calling for him to step down after meeting with him.

[Hermit]

This is simultaneously the most terrifying, stupid, and most ludicrous timeline

[Starlord]

The Fahrenheit 451 timeline

[Old Man]

[Lord Liaden]

50 minutes ago, Starlord said:

Many democratic politicians keep calling for Biden to step down - media can't shut up if you keep feeding it.  George Clooney helped raise $30 million for Biden a few weeks ago and has now reversed - calling for him to step down after meeting with him.

 

That "many" is another deliberate exaggeration. It was a grand total of nine in Congress, and they've all since retracted their remarks.

 

And I question the expertise of George Clooney outside of anything but acting.

Edited July 11 by Lord Liaden