Stumbling over an unseen imaginary deceased turtle

[DasBroot]

 

My favorite Rolemaster movement fumble (roll of 90 I think) aside (it's actually relevant) I have a player trying to make an unseen maze without breaking the character point bank.

 

What they came up with is:

 

"Touch Group Images, +/-6 to PER Rolls, Alterable Size, Area Of Effect (32m Radius; +1) (56 Active Points)"

 

... afterwards we were both confused as to what, exactly, happens when the power is used.

 

Three robbers in a bank get put in it as they try to flee.  Clearly (ha!) they run into invisible walls that if they fail their perception checks will believe are real.... but what happens after that?

 

Touch images have 0 bod, 0 pd/ed.  If they decide to do a move through they'll get out - but if it feels like a steel wall and they're normal people would they even try?

 

In frustration they empty their clip at the hero.  Again it's pretty clear that the bullets rip through unimpeded - but the image 'reacts accordingly' and a steel wall 'touch' effect against a bullet would be flattening it.  However, it's not a sight illusion so they don't see their bullets flatten (nor hear ricochet). 

 

What about if they weren't in the area of effect when it went off? Again they'd walk right into a wall and get confused - but if they were at a run wouldn't they be performing an accidental move through? Or would they stop as if they'd hit a steel wall even though they had no reason to decelerate or do so until the moment they hit it?

 

(While not the intent there's also nothing from creating the topic title turtle and placing it in front of a fleeing robber, knee high.)

 

(Mental Illusion would obviously be a lot cleaner, but they specifically want it to work on robots, drones, etc as well.  A barrier maze would be best but really, really expensive)

[Mister E]

Entangle w/ Works Against Alternate Characteristic (INT substitutes for STR to break free).

 

APG p.57

[Manic Typist]

Interesting. Entangle is the more obvious route but I look forward to more experienced minds than mind weighing in.

 

First, as constructed, I imagine a rather natural reaction (one I would likely have) is that after encountering the invisible wall I would actively press my hands against it, look for edges, bang my fist against it and push with all my strength to see how strong it is. So...would I actually go through? Or am I like an unwitting mime?

[Armitage]

Entangle w/ Works Against Alternate Characteristic (INT substitutes for STR to break free).

 

APG p.57

 

 

This was how I considered designing an adaptation of the Maze spell from D&D.  The target is trapped in a labyrinth that can only be escaped through using intelligence to find your way out.  There's also the whole "transported to a pocket dimension" bit, but that's a secondary portion of the power.

[massey]

Images would just mean that it feels like there's something there, but if they push against it, they go right through.  You could combine it with like a 4 PD Force Wall (or Barrier, whatever), that way they have something to push against.  It still won't hold up if they try and smash their way through (unless they're fairly strong), but most people don't try to smash their way through what feels like a steel wall (complete with bumps and rivets and stuff that feel like they'd really hurt to hit).

 

Mental Illusions could also work.

 

The power you're describing may be expensive, but look what you're getting out of it.  You're trapping one or more people for the duration of the power.  If they've got super abilities all those points they paid on Energy Blast, Flight, etc, are not really useful during this time.  It's a potentially very powerful ability.

[Surrealone]

"Touch Group Images, +/-6 to PER Rolls, Alterable Size, Area Of Effect (32m Radius; +1) (56 Active Points)"

 

... afterwards we were both confused as to what, exactly, happens when the power is used.

 

Three robbers in a bank get put in it as they try to flee.  Clearly (ha!) they run into invisible walls that if they fail their perception checks will believe are real.... but what happens after that?

 

Touch images have 0 bod, 0 pd/ed.  If they decide to do a move through they'll get out - but if it feels like a steel wall and they're normal people would they even try?

Per RAW (Champions Complete, pg 71):

• "To project an Image, the character decides what Image to produce, where to produce it, and what actions (if any) the Image will perform"
• "Characters who perceive an Image may attempt a PER Roll, modified by any purchased penalties and any bonuses for the complexity of the Image (see the Images Complexity Table)"
• "Normally, Images react in an appropriate manner to outside phenomena unless the creator of the Image chooses otherwise"

Taken together, this means that when the character performs a move-through on the images that feel like invisible steel walls ... or empties an entire magazine (not clip!  clips are something different! look up the difference outside of Hero System!) at them ... the touch-based image reacts appropriately.  Thus, the character doing the move-through goes flying through the non-existent walls, but as long as s/he remains in the area of effect, the image adapts appropriately, presenting an image that represents the character still feeling walls around him/hers (i.e. the character still feels the presence of the wall, even though it didn't hurt; perhaps the invisible wall felt like it stretched???).  Similarly, emptying an entire magazine at the walls means bullets are sprayed all over the place -- but the character still feels the presence of the walls, afterward. (Unlike the move-through, the character wouldn't feel anything since the bullets, not the character, passed through the walls -- so the character would simply feel the presence of walls after the shots).

 

IMPORTANT:

Image complexity increases in each reactive scenario, above, meaning you should consult the Images Complexity Table and consider giving those who can feel the images another PER roll, potentially with modifiers based on previous attempts to 'escape'.  Sadly, the Images Complexity Table seems to have been referenced in Champions Complete (see quote, above) -- but left out of it, as a search for that exact string reveals nothing in the PDF.  (One more case of Champions Complete being ... incomplete... it seems.) 5ER has the table, and presumably 6E does, too. From that table, +6 is the bonus to PER roll for observing things as complex as a football team in action, the sound of an orchestra, the smells of Thanksgiving dinner, etc.  Thus, a -6 to PER rolls would offset quite a lot of complexity for things much less complicated (like one individual performing a move through on, or shooting at ... the walls they can only feel) ... at least for a while.

[DasBroot]

The missing complexity table does indeed sound handy for this situation.  If he decides to use that power Surrealone's will be the description I use.  

 

As for the rest

 

Entangle is neat but he really wanted to see the effect of people miming their way around a maze trying to get out - as written an entangle would have them standing there until they broke free.  It's definitely a great interpretation for the non-dimensional shifting aspect of the D&D maze spell.

 

Barrier is too 'real' for the character concept (he's an illusionist).  Even if I let him disregard the stated minimum PD/ED rules for Barrier (I usually do - just can't be 0) it's still something physically there that needs to be dealt with unless he puts a time limit on it or takes dismissable.  

 

I think at the end of the day once I point out that MOST things he puts in it will simply try and break the walls in frustration if nothing else (and thus get out, perception of it being a real wall or not) he'll probably take it as a 'build a maze for kids on Halloween' kind of power.  His combat images are brutal enough in play (most fights for him start from Invisibility with an all common senses Image of Ironclad (or Doctor Destroyer) entering the room so the enemies waste their first attacks on it. Then the team, holding their actions, strikes.)

[Christopher]

"Touch Group Images, +/-6 to PER Rolls, Alterable Size, Area Of Effect (32m Radius; +1) (56 Active Points)"

As they are invisible walls, people by definition will "run into them" and accidently perform a move-through. Even a low speed move-through (walking speed) would be beyond what a touch image could stop.

 

The target would run through the wall. It would feel like running into a steelwall and then just running through without so much as a scratch - however that feels.

Wich would either instantly identify the illusion as illusion (because they are normals and can't normally run through steel walls) or at least make it a non-issue (there might be invsible walls, but they can just run through them).

 

Touch Sense Illusions mostly work if there already is something to touch and it's shape roughly equals what you try to imitate.

You can use them to change the touch sense impression of something that exists. Not create something to exist.

[DasBroot]

Heh. Feeling like you ran through a steel wall accidentally  made me laugh.

 

"Ah! The capes are here! Run, boys!"

*wham*

"Son of a ... ow... what the hell was that? Keep running!"