DasBroot Posted May 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 I've never seen a character use Casual STR to throw an object and while my play experience is limited this thread is also the first time I have ever seen someone mention doing so on this forum. I thought the example of play combat encounter for Champions Complete was somewhere in Champions Complete itself but I guess it was another companion PDF. Ironclad and Sapphire are eating lunch at a sidewalk cafe when an armored truck gets held up by Arrowhead and Green Dragon. Anyways, the first thing Ironclad does is throw their table at Green Dragon with his casual strength before springing into action. ... that's about all I can think of anywhere close to an 'official' use. Am I seeing double? My first control-v doesn't show for some reason (and I control-c all my posts because the forum loves to log me out when I press post). Usually remember to go back and edit it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 If a 6d6 AP RKA law rocket roars in during one of my sessions there's no question who jumps in front of it. You mean the Thing DOES NOT throw the Human Torch into it? That's a shame! I've never seen a character use Casual STR to throw an object and while my play experience is limited this thread is also the first time I have ever seen someone mention doing so on this forum. Keep in mind, casually throwing an object entails throwing it for cinematic effect -- i.e. out of the way, at someone in such a way that it's not intended to do damage, etc. If you want to throw an object in way that's intended for the throw to harm someone or something, most GM's will make you take time to do a grab/throw ... since throwing things around to do harm is a bit beyond what casual STR is intended to cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 I've never seen a character use Casual STR to throw an object and while my play experience is limited this thread is also the first time I have ever seen someone mention doing so on this forum. I haven't ever seen it used that way either. I guess it could be done, its just tough to envision a situation that's going to come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 ^^^ That's one example. I haven't ever seen it used that way either. I guess it could be done, its just tough to envision a situation that's going to come up. Sure you've seen it. At ~3:17 in the video, below, the Hulk performs what I'll term a 'grab-through' (with his left hand) on an agent-level opponent, after which he leaps to a nearby building ... slamming this grabbed opponent into it as he lands/clings at ~3:20. At ~3:21 the Hulk spins (while keeping his opponent grabbed in the left hand) so that his back faces the building to which he's clinging ... and uses his outstretched right arm/hand to grab and slam another nearby agent. He spins once more at ~3:22 and then casually discards/throws the opponent (behind him) that he had grabbed with his left hand, and shortly thereafter casually throws/discards the opponent (through a window) that he had grabbed in his right hand ... as he leaps forward. Both of the throws immediately following ~3:22 are casual ... and purely cinematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 That's one interpretation. However, watching from the start, it seems Iike Cap, Widow and Hawkeye get attacks in just as fast. Are they using Casual Shield, Casual, Archery and Casual. Martial Arts? Obviously, Thor must have used Casual Lightning or he could not land immediately after - an attack action would end his phase. Or maybe - just maybe - the movie did not slavishly apply Hero System rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 I think its worth at least experimenting with allowing people to move after they use an attack. That is, to have attack actions not end your turn, and to allow you to break your half move into parts. So it would play out like this: Bob the Invincible has a 26m run. His half move is 13m. Bob runs up to a Viper Agent, using 5m of his half move, then grabs the Viper Agent, picks him up, and moves the rest of his half move to 8m, or the full 13m move. Savage Worlds allows this and I have not noted that it demonstrably breaks the game. It does, however, make for very dynamic battlefields and would better represent a lot of combat moves especially in action and comic book stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 ^^^ That's one example. Sure you've seen it. At ~3:17 in the video, below, the Hulk performs what I'll term a 'grab-through' (with his left hand) on an agent-level opponent, after which he leaps to a nearby building ... slamming this grabbed opponent into it as he lands/clings at ~3:20. At ~3:21 the Hulk spins (while keeping his opponent grabbed in the left hand) so that his back faces the building to which he's clinging ... and uses his outstretched right arm/hand to grab and slam another nearby agent. He spins once more at ~3:22 and then casually discards/throws the opponent (behind him) that he had grabbed with his left hand, and shortly thereafter casually throws/discards the opponent (through a window) that he had grabbed in his right hand ... as he leaps forward. Both of the throws immediately following ~3:22 are casual ... and purely cinematic. Or he bought an AoE Attack that's part of a Leap.... Or what we watched was actually several phases of combat in a row, just focusing on one character at a time... Dozens of ways to handle a movie scene, which doesn't actually follow game rules and a supremely poor thing to use as an example of game mechanics in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Or he bought an AoE Attack that's part of a Leap.... Or what we watched was actually several phases of combat in a row, just focusing on one character at a time... Dozens of ways to handle a movie scene, which doesn't actually follow game rules and a supremely poor thing to use as an example of game mechanics in action. Well sure, it's a movie and it's not tied to Hero System mechanics. In this case the two throws were made with absolutely no relevant effect. i.e. Both opponents were already toast and the Hulk simply tossed them away to free up his hands for something else ... essentially getting them out of the way after being finished with them. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd consider that casual STR use for cinematic effect. By the way, I can't think of an AoE attack that would end in a grab, hence my term 'grab-through'. I figured if Grab and Move By can be combined to form Grab By in RAW, what we saw could well be explained as a house-ruled combination of Grab and Move Through ... for a Grab-Through. That said, I think it's much more likely that as Hugh said so well, above, "maybe - the movie did not slavishly apply Hero System rules". And that's how it should be, since the RAW attempt (key word: attempt) to model the comic books and their genre, not the other way around. I'd consider Marvel's movies among the best moving/working examples of the comic book genre's stills (it's their intellectual property, after all, so they know their characters best)... and, thus, likely some of the best moving/working examples of what, precisely, Hero System set out to model for use in role-play. I also thought that example was apropos for this thread given all the grabs within the segment I referenced ... and this being a thread about grabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 By the way, I can't think of an AoE attack that would end in a grab, hence my term 'grab-through'. Multiple Attack. And Grab-By (usually reserved for weapons, but large characters could use them on other targets...). The 'grabbing' we see could be SFX, likewise the 'throwing' could be knockback. Trying to use source material as an explanation for game mechanics is always problematic and never illustrates things as well as one might hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 I think its worth at least experimenting with allowing people to move after they use an attack. That is, to have attack actions not end your turn, and to allow you to break your half move into parts. We have allowed the attack action to be followed by the other half move for the phase with no ill effects, but not with splitting the half move. It had no real negative impact. D&D 3.0+ lets the move follow the attack as well, which was one reason we experimented with it in Hero (after gasping as someone actually DID move his character after an attack, forcing us to note this difference between the D&D and Hero rule set when D&D clearly stole much of the Hero half phase model ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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