Star Wars using Hero...?

[Ninja-Bear]

Tasha you say logical. First there is no guarantee that Armor should be decent against Blasters. Look how many generations of kevlar it took to as effecttive against.bullets as it is now.

 

Second Darth.Vader had no qualms allowing Aan Imperial Star Destroyer be blown apart in an asteroid field just.for the Millenium Falcon..Not sure of the official numbers but each ship had over a thousand crew members and he had 3 in danger.

 

Again He is Sith. They don't care. They will throw more at you. Again if they cared, why didn't the TIEs have shields in the beginning?

 

Well.thats.my.take on it.

 

Btw elite units do have nice stuff in my game. ; )

[Tasha]

Tasha you say logical. First there is no guarantee that Armor should be decent against Blasters. Look how many generations of kevlar it took to as effecttive against.bullets as it is now.

 

Second Darth.Vader had no qualms allowing Aan Imperial Star Destroyer be blown apart in an asteroid field just.for the Millenium Falcon..Not sure of the official numbers but each ship had over a thousand crew members and he had 3 in danger.

 

Again He is Sith. They don't care. They will throw more at you. Again if they cared, why didn't the TIEs have shields in the beginning?

 

Well.thats.my.take on it.

 

Btw elite units do have nice stuff in my game. ; )

Well Vader doesn't buy stuff for the Imperial forces. That is up to the Regional Governors (AKA The Moffs). I can't imagine that they would waste money on armor that didn't actually work. Esp since it was pretty clear that it made a difference during the Clone Wars.

 

On top of that everyone ASSUMES that the hit kills the Stormtrooper. They could just be Wounded and KOed. 

[bigdamnhero]

I like the "decent PD and low ED approach" so that the storm trooper suits aren't meant for protection so much as environmental suits and incidental attacks like blades.  That way they behave like the films (because, let's be honest, that's what people want to play in) but make some sense.

Wasn't there a line in Force Awakens about `Trooper suits not protecting against gas/toxins? So even as environmental suits they're pretty worthless. Per RotJ, they're not even much use against rocks.* Let's face it, their only real purpose is to dehumanize Troopers so you don't feel bad about watching them get mowed down.

 

I think for any Star Wars game the first thing players and GM must agree on is are we playing a game that faithfully follows the moves? Or are we playing a game based on the movies, but where things actually make sense. No wrong answer, but trying to do both leads to too many logical inconsistencies.

 

* Is there a Godwin's Law equivalent for Star Wars discussions where the first person who brings up Ewoks loses?

[bigdamnhero]

On top of that everyone ASSUMES that the hit kills the Stormtrooper. They could just be Wounded and KOed. 

Hmm...that's actually an interesting idea. What if their armor is actually very good at stopping BODY, but not STUN for some technobabble reasons. Maybe that's why they don't mind throwing Troopers into the breech en masse, because they know most of them will actually survive and be "re-usable." Suddenly makes the Empire seem a lot less heartless. (Or at least less wasteful.)

[Ninja-Bear]

Tasha not.sure if I mentioned it on this thread but remember, the clones were product of the republic. The republic did care about the clones. They gave them the best equipment, encouraged them to choose a name. Which, Moff is going to refuse Vader? Not many.after getting force choked. Also remember historically Generals have been known to waste men. Remember the Trench wars of WWI?

 

I do agree about the stun. In WEG, when wounded you are pretty muched KO'd.

[Ninja-Bear]

Btw Tasha.im not saying you're wrong about Stormtroopers. For me, once I thought about the Sith, it makes it easier to justify them in my game.

[ArchadeBW]

Ok ... second playtest of the landing pad scenario with stormtroopers went far better, felt like Star wars. Stormtroopers with 3pd/5ed armor went down most of the time vs PC's with weaponmaster, combat skill levels, and combat luck. Even with e-11 blasters having a built in +2 ocv, smart characters using tactics and cover mopped them up in a little over a turn ...

[Christopher R Taylor]

Is there a Godwin's Law equivalent for Star Wars discussions where the first person who brings up Ewoks loses?

 

 

I like to pretend that whole sequence never happened, much like Highlander 2

[Vanguard]

I don't see Jedis usually deflecting that many shots in a scene. And they reflect even less.

 

Not sure if you're discounting the prequels but in there, Jedi deflected LOTS of blaster bolts. And reflected them too.

 

It wasn't until they were caught by surprise during Order 66 that they fell under massed blaster assault.

[Christopher R Taylor]

It wasn't until they were caught by surprise during Order 66 that they fell under massed blaster assault.

 

 

And the sheer force of the plot requiring them to die for episode 4 to make any sense at all.

[Hyper-Man]

So ... next question ... how would you handle deflecting and redirecting blaster fire with a lightsaber?

 

I've tried building a deflection power, and it's not bad (but a little complicated as the Block makeover it's based on isn't meant to Deflect 10+ Blaster shots a round, unless the Jedi has 10-15 combat skill levels), and I'm stumped on how to handle redirecting blaster bolts, as Reflection is even more unwieldy than Deflection.

 

Any ideas?

 

Look up my rookie Wonder Woman build in the downloads section for one way to do this.

 

HM

[Vanguard]

And the sheer force of the plot requiring them to die for episode 4 to make any sense at all.

 

Well . . yeah, there is that.

[NuSoardGraphite]

A campaign where all the PCs are Jedi may be fun. I'd get rid of that stupid "Rule of Two" for Sith, however.

No kidding. It might work for the movies, but for other mediums its a terrible idea.

 

When I ran my last SW game, I set it during the EU at Luke's Jedi Academy and all the players were newly apprenticed Jedi. Each master was assigned 5 students to train....not enough masters to do one on one yet. And for the enemy, it was three way between the Imperial Knights....a faction of Gray Jedi who were trying to convince the empire to sponser them so the empire had its own school of Force Users....and the rise of a new group of Sith, one who did not agree with Bane's rule of two crap, so he was training a group of Sith.

 

Jedi trainees vs Imperial Knight trainees vs Sith trainees. Plenty of force users to go around. I even managed to get a love triangle going between one of the Jedi PCs and an Imperial Knight and one of the Sith.

 

Teenagers....

[NuSoardGraphite]

So ... next question ... how would you handle deflecting and redirecting blaster fire with a lightsaber?

 

I've tried building a deflection power, and it's not bad (but a little complicated as the Block makeover it's based on isn't meant to Deflect 10+ Blaster shots a round, unless the Jedi has 10-15 combat skill levels), and I'm stumped on how to handle redirecting blaster bolts, as Reflection is even more unwieldy than Deflection.

 

Any ideas?

Missle Deflection and Reflection works just fine.

 

I use a house rule that when I apply Constant/Continuous to Missile Deflection, it allows deflection/reflection attempts without using an action. It takes one action to "turn it on", but once its on, it can be used without costing an action until it is turned off, the Jedi is stunned (which turns it off) or the Jedi misses a deflection attempt. The penalties accrue as normal and refresh back to zero at the beginning of the characters phase. It works for simulating master Jedi who can casually deflect blaster fire while doing other things without the need for concentration.

[Tasha]

I like to pretend that whole sequence never happened, much like Highlander 2

 

There was no Highlander 2 or Highlander 3, they are a myth. and you can't tell me any different. LALALALALALA, not listening, trying to wash those out of my poor addled brain....

Only Highlander, Highlander the Series, and Highlander the Raven. (yeah I was one of the few that liked the last one) There can be only Three!

[Tasha]

No kidding. It might work for the movies, but for other mediums its a terrible idea.

 

When I ran my last SW game, I set it during the EU at Luke's Jedi Academy and all the players were newly apprenticed Jedi. Each master was assigned 5 students to train....not enough masters to do one on one yet. And for the enemy, it was three way between the Imperial Knights....a faction of Gray Jedi who were trying to convince the empire to sponser them so the empire had its own school of Force Users....and the rise of a new group of Sith, one who did not agree with Bane's rule of two crap, so he was training a group of Sith.

 

Jedi trainees vs Imperial Knight trainees vs Sith trainees. Plenty of force users to go around. I even managed to get a love triangle going between one of the Jedi PCs and an Imperial Knight and one of the Sith.

 

Teenagers....

Also it's clear that the whole "Master and their Apprentice" doesn't mean that they can't train other force sensitives to use the darkside. They just can't make them fully Sith. Which is why Darth Maul could exist along side of Lord Dooku (poopyhead). The first was the "Apprentice" the other just another darkside force user. It's pretty clear that the empire had a ton of force trained operatives all darksiders.

[Chris Goodwin]

I think I might have come close to taking over the "4, 5, 6" thread on General, and for that I apologize.  I thought I would say a bit about my thoughts on Star Wars Hero, and Powers in games in general. 

 

I sidetracked the discussion on to Blocking and Deflection.  Someone might reasonably ask why I was so adamant over there about it.  I prefer lower powered games where characters' heroism isn't measured in how many points they've spent on Powers.  I like having limits to start with, and I like having those limits worked around, thought around -- played around, as in played the game, not built around.  My Low Heroic Protocols are an expression of this.  

 

My Star Wars Hero game would have characters starting with few or no powers.  Exceptions would be for Jedi, for droids (most likely NPCs, but not impossible to have droid PCs), and for nonhumans.  I would probably start with 125-150 point heroes, with maybe a hard limit of 25-50 points in Powers, and that's assuming you fit into one of the exceptions.  My Low Heroic Protocols call for charging double for all Powers -- I may or may not enforce it, though my first impulse is to do just that.  Normal equipment would cost no points.  (In this case, normal blasters, comm units, grapple launchers, various kinds of armor, and so forth.)  If you want a droid, spend points for it as a Follower; if you want a ship, you will probably pay the points for it as well.  Or maybe not; you might be able to acquire those in play without necessarily spending the points.  Or you wouldn't spend points for it, but it might come with strings attached...

 

The Powers that you do have, you'd start with maybe one or two or three, and they wouldn't be slots in a Multipower or VPP, at least to start with.  That's a thing that you would put XP toward, especially as a Jedi. Weaponmaster, Deadly Blow, and Combat Luck would be restricted or not allowed.  Deflection would be for Force users, because that's for sure one of the cool things they do in the Star Wars saga!  

 

I also wouldn't necessarily tailor the power level of the opposition to the PCs, though it's pretty likely the main enemies would be in the same weight class, so to speak.  The characters might go up against 25-point mooks, or 450-point monsters, or 175-point bounty hunters or Sith.  But if a villain is too tough for your blasts to affect, switch targets.  Or switch tactics.  Instead of trying to hit him harder, blast a hole in the ground underneath him, or blast the wall behind him so that he gets buried under debris.  Double up on him!  Finn can't beat "Matt" on his own, nor can Rey on her own, but together they take him down, and hard!  Wrap the AT-AT's legs in a tow cable so that it falls down.  

 

That's where I'm coming from.