5th & 6th: How do you build a blessing/curse without independent?

[Wardsman]

A really long term and or epic curse was often built as independent (enchantment) on a person or the land. Not necessarily needing a focus.

 

However 6th doesn't have independent and in 5th you may be using Create effect as your enchantment.

So what does a long term curse or blessing in either look under such a system?

 

If you use create we are talking about some heavy ritual. And how do curse someone afar with Create?

Is their other options?

[L. Marcus]

I'd build curses as Transform -- Physical, Mental, or Spiritual, as the case may be; Cosmetic, Minor, Major, or Severe depending on effect. If you want to curse an entire nation, use Area of Effect, MegaScale.

[Wardsman]

I'd build curses as Transform -- Physical, Mental, or Spiritual, as the case may be; Cosmetic, Minor, Major, or Severe depending on effect. If you want to curse an entire nation, use Area of Effect, MegaScale.

That is high on the lists of alternatives. And does give a fairytale effect. But what if you don't want to deal that mechanic for whatever reason?

Not saying it is wrong by any means. It is in my bag of tricks . But are there some other ways?

 

Blighting the land with an create effect I can see. Whether you open a permanent hell gate (EDM),  alter the weather with a permanent change in environment, something else it seems easier than accumulating enough body to transform a kingdom.

 

However cursing a person from afar I don't have a handle on without transform and few other effects.

What does  cursing someone not present look like with create effect?

[Netzilla]

Is this a PC or NPC ability? If it's NPC, I just list out the mechanical effects and don't worry about an "official" power write-up.

 

If it's for a PC, then it depends on the mechanics of the magic system I'm using. Personally, I'm a fan of using the Resource Pool rules for magic. In that case, the pool works very similar to Independant as the items in the pool can be permanently lost without any recompense to the character.

[Christopher R Taylor]

An extremely long term drain (destroy!) could simulate a curse as well, especially if you put a limitation on it that lets it be lifted with some special technique.  Recover per decade = effectively permanent.

[Wardsman]

Is this a PC or NPC ability? If it's NPC, I just list out the mechanical effects and don't worry about an "official" power write-up.

 

If it's for a PC, then it depends on the mechanics of the magic system I'm using. Personally, I'm a fan of using the Resource Pool rules for magic. In that case, the pool works very similar to Independant as the items in the pool can be permanently lost without any recompense to the character.

Your right a lot does depend the magic system. I was just exploring options in general.

Resource pool? is that like a VP(Variable Power )?  Sell me on it.

I seen veeps misused but I can see how they are useful as equipment pools.

But I'm firm believer not letting frameworks in for mages unless no-mages can use them.

That may be problem in my standard fantasy set up.

Though that may not be an issue for my Wytches and Wiseguys Urban fantasy if I allow equipment pools.

[Netzilla]

Resource Pools originally came up (I believe) in Dark Champions for 5e.  For 6e, you can find rules for them in AGP1, page 191.

 

It's somewhat similar to a VPP in that you have a pool of points that you can use to swap powers in and out.  It has the limitations that you have to have access to your "armory" to make the swap, you can only use items that currently exists in your "armory" and if anything in it is lost or destroyed, it's gone forever.  Adding new things to your armory could be as simple as buying a new piece of equipment or as complex as researching long lost lore to unlock the secrets of ancient magic; it depends on how the pool works as defined in the campaign guidelines.

 

Any spell cast in an "Independent" fashion would end up gone (basically you're permanently giving up the magic required to run that spell indefinitely and independent of your control and upkeep).

[Wardsman]

Resource Pools originally came up (I believe) in Dark Champions for 5e.  For 6e, you can find rules for them in AGP1, page 191.

 

It's somewhat similar to a VPP in that you have a pool of points that you can use to swap powers in and out.  It has the limitations that you have to have access to your "armory" to make the swap, you can only use items that currently exists in your "armory" and if anything in it is lost or destroyed, it's gone forever.  Adding new things to your armory could be as simple as buying a new piece of equipment or as complex as researching long lost lore to unlock the secrets of ancient magic; it depends on how the pool works as defined in the campaign guidelines.

 

Any spell cast in an "Independent" fashion would end up gone (basically you're permanently giving up the magic required to run that spell indefinitely and independent of your control and upkeep).

I'm unclear what defines independent in that fashion.

[Netzilla]

The fact that the points are disconnected from the character and once the power is lost its gone for good with no recompense for the character.  That's a big part of what Independent did.

[Wardsman]

I'm unclear what defines independent in that fashion.

I'm still not grokking. I'll need to dig out Gark Champions and also look at veeps again.

So far we have these options:

 

1. Transform. Seems to work for people or objects but not so much largescale blight the land examples
2. A suggestion to build it in a veep, not sure about that
3. Create effect, seems to work largescale blight the land but looking for a build for cursing persons or objects not present

Is there a 4th option?

[L. Marcus]

There is always Change Environment, which under 6E is targeted at individuals by default -- it is not automatically AoE.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah you can get some subtle effects with Change Environment and a really long linger adder.  Its good for bad luck curses (-1 to rolls, etc).

[L. Marcus]

I like CE. It's super-flexible.

[Netzilla]

I'm still not grokking. I'll need to dig out Gark Champions and also look at veeps again.

 

Okay, let's approach it from this direction: what aspects of Independent are you looking to emulate?

[Wardsman]

Okay, let's approach it from this direction: what aspects of Independent are you looking to emulate?

With Create I'm burning LTE. With independent I'm burning real points. The Veep way seems cheating. Especially since a VP is a souped up multipower. If if shift control points to something else shouldn't the effect die?

[Netzilla]

It's no more going to die than if your supercar would self-destruct if it got stolen out of your vehicle pool.  What you're giving up in the case of the Resource Pool is access to the power itself.  Once you place the curse on something that curse is not available for anything else.  You would either need to take the curse off the original target or acquire a new curse if you wanted to curse something else.  How easy either of those are will depend on the nature of the curse and the specific rules regarding magic for the campaign.

 

Note that I'm not saying a Resource Pool would work for every type of magic system.  That's why I stated in my original post that what you would do would depend on how magic works for that campaign.  One in which magic is based on a Resource Pool, however, would need SFX that were compatible with the rules for Resource Pools.  For example, magic that requires spells be imbued into objects (wands, potions, scrolls or some other physical vessel) would easily fit the rules for resource pools.  On the other hand, magic which is entirely inherent to the caster (such as most magic in Middle Earth) would be less so.

[Wardsman]

It's no more going to die than if your supercar would self-destruct if it got stolen out of your vehicle pool.  What you're giving up in the case of the Resource Pool is access to the power itself.  Once you place the curse on something that curse is not available for anything else.  You would either need to take the curse off the original target or acquire a new curse if you wanted to curse something else.  How easy either of those are will depend on the nature of the curse and the specific rules regarding magic for the campaign.

 

Note that I'm not saying a Resource Pool would work for every type of magic system.  That's why I stated in my original post that what you would do would depend on how magic works for that campaign.  One in which magic is based on a Resource Pool, however, would need SFX that were compatible with the rules for Resource Pools.  For example, magic that requires spells be imbued into objects (wands, potions, scrolls or some other physical vessel) would easily fit the rules for resource pools.  On the other hand, magic which is entirely inherent to the caster (such as most magic in Middle Earth) would be less so.

How is resource pools different than Veeps?

[L. Marcus]

A character doesn't pay points for Equipment Pools.

[Netzilla]

A character doesn't pay points for Equipment Pools.

Yes they do. They can be allotted a base pool size at GM discretion. They can then buy them up at a rate of X CPs per Y pool points. The ratio is also set by the GM. It's the armory that you don't pay for.

[Netzilla]

How is resource pools different than Veeps?

I pointed above (post 7) that they're similar to a VPP with certain built-in limitations.

[Lucius]

 

 

You want to curse and bless at a great distance? Here are ways to find your target.

 

I Name Thee, Accursed!: (Total: 94 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) Mind Scan 1d6+1, +10 OMCV, Invisible Power Effects (Invisible to Mental Group; +1/4), One Way Link (+1), Cumulative (56 points; +1 1/4) (94 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 3/4), OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -1 1/4), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4), Incantations (-1/4), Mandatory Effect EGO +10 (-1/4), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Knocked Out (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) (Real Cost: 16)

 

At 1d6 rolled per hour, this will take a while to build up, but it is a one way psychic connection and will not alert the target. The Expendable Focus is something connected with the target, such as an item the target has worn or handled or a depiction such as a picture drawn of the target.

 

My Blessing Upon Thee!: (Total: 30 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Mind Link , Any Willing Target, No LOS Needed, Unlimited range in this dimension (30 Active Points); Extra Time (6 Hours, Only to Activate, -1 3/4), OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -1 1/4), Limited Power Can't communicate; only to use Mental Powers (-1), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4), Incantations (-1/4), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Knocked Out (-1/4), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

After a six hour ceremony this establishes psychic contact with the target. No communication is possible beyond mutual recognition and identification, unless additional spells are employed.

 

Here is a sample long distance curse

 

Wasting: (Total: 40 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) Mental Blast 2d6, Does BODY (+1) (40 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (33-64 damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Week, -1 1/2) (Real Cost: 16)

 

Inflicts a wasting illness that does 2d6 damage (an average of 2 BOD) every week, for up to a year or more. Mental Defense only applies until the cumulative total overcomes it. Will kill a normal person with no special healing abilities in a matter of months.

 

Here is a sample blessing

 

Success Waxes with the Moon, and Wanes Not: (Total: 25 Active Cost, 3 Real Cost) +1 with all Non-Combat Skills, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Usable As Attack (+1), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor can only grant the power to others, Recipient must be within Standard Range of the Grantor for power to be granted (25 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (9-12 damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Month, -5 1/2), Extra Time (5 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 3)

 

Starting one month after the blessing, target gains +1 Skill Level to all noncombat every month for up to 9 to 12 months.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Blessing a palindromedary

[Wardsman]

interesting ideas but for long term it looks transform or create. I'll try to whip a create effect long range curse. I've been exploring the create effect for a couple different things.

[bigdamnhero]

How is resource pools different than Veeps?

Resource Points (the RAW name in both 5ed and 6ed) are essentially a way to split the difference between Superheroic "Buy Equipment With Points" and Heroic "Buy Equipment With Money" models. It's not a framework per se, it just says you can have X points worth of gear (or Vehicles or Followers or whatever) each adventure, but you can vary the load in between adventures. Think of it like what gadgets is Q going to give Bond this week? It's cheaper than a Gadget VPP because you're not inventing new things or changing the load on the fly. I've never seen it used for spells, but it's an intriguing idea.

 

Other options, if you don't want to use Transform:

 

Most damage-causing attacks leave permanent effects, ie Blight built as an RKA with AOE; maybe tack on a Difficult To Heal Advantage similar to Difficult to Dispel.

 

Most any Adjustment Power can be made effectively permanent if you buy the Recovery Period up enough.

 

One Continuing Charge lasting 1 Century is only a +2 Advantage. (Plus +1/2 for making the Power Constant, if needed.)

 

Or y'know, there's nothing stopping you from tacking on a Custom Limitation called Independent that works the way you want it to.

[Hadmar von Wieser]

Here is some classic stuff (4 E rules, mythological examples) I used in a campaign in the 90s:

Black Sky and Blood Rain: The whole land is covered with low hanging black clouds and you can't see anything due to of the blood trickling in your eyes
DARKNESS vs. Sight (10), Area Effect Radius x 4000 (+4), Continuous (+1), 1 Continuing charge: 1 year (+1)
Extra Time (1 day, -3½), OAF Expendable: 20 pairs of night gaunt's eyeballs, soaked in one dark elf's blood (Hard to aquire, -1¼), Incantations: The Obsidian Recitations of Ry'yÄ (-¼), Gestures: walk a 40 kilometer circle and bury the eyeballs every 1 kilometer (-¼), Concentration (½ DCV, -¼)
Reasonably common way to turn the power off: Find the eyeballs, burn them, wash them with holy water, or bless them and bury them with proper Goddess of Death's rites
 

[Hadmar von Wieser]

Wicked Weed and Tumbley Thorns: Curse 1 town or fortress with unextinguishable plants 
1d6 ENTANGLE: 6 DEF (10), Area Effect Radius x 1000 (+3½), Continuous (+1), 1 Continuing charge: 10 years (+1½)
Extra Time: return for 7 days (1 week, -4), OAF Expendable: 1000 thorns stuck in 10 living children, removed, and cursed afterwards (Hard to aquire, -1¼), Incantations: The Elegy of Desolation (-¼), Gestures: Sow the thorns in all 4 directions (-¼)
Reasonably common way to turn the power off: Burn the whole areal! (burns 3 days)