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Protecting your Secret ID with Illusion


CptPatriot

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I've tried doing that with Mental Illusion, but it gets cost-prohibitive quick because you have to affect each individual separately. You almost need a Megascaled Area Effect to reach out to LOS. You might almost do better with Images or even Shapeshift with a pile of Limitations to make it work like a Mental Power.

 

Do you want people to get a Breakout Roll to see through the Illusion? Or a PER Roll? Or no Roll at all? Is it Always On, Persistent, etc? Do you want Mental Defense and/or DMCV to defend against it, and if so how?

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To me it's just a SFX; The Secret ID will stay in place, because the Character has that kind of mental blurring affecting others, no matter what. You don't need to make him pay for that, he already have the Complication; and it doesn't depends of rules or Dispel or stuff that risk to negate it.

 

Mentally cleared, Opale

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I have a mentalist character and I had the idea of disguising her looks from people by a sort of mental illusion that let's people see her as they want to see her, in a fashion similar to how the Star Trek Salt Monster did it in "The Man Trap".

 

Any suggestions?

Simple:

Do not get the "Secret Identitiy" Complication or at least buy it on a much lower level.

You just got a special effect for why she does not have any issues keeping her secret ID.

 

"A complication that can be avoided is not worth any points".

So a complication that can be lessened, is worth less points too.

Distinctive features even includes a "how easy it is to hide said feature" as part of the price. With mental illusion hiding about anything is pretty easy, so the value goes way down (without having to buy the power for it).

 

Allowing powers to negate Complications only ends up in munkinism where a 25 Point Complication is countered by a 5 point Power. Best to just not start with that :)

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Ah, but don't forget about things that don't have minds and wouldn't be affected by mental illusions.  I'm speaking primary of cameras, though it would also apply to robots and the like.  This could conceivably affect the character keeping her identity secret, so you'd still want to keep the "Secret Identity" Complication (albeit at a lesser level). 

 

As a GM, if the character isn't buying a Power to do the effect, I'd probably say that anybody with more than say 5-10 points of Mental Defense gets an automatic EGO roll to subconsciously ignore the mental illusion.

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I hadn't thought about what sort of defenses you'd need but I didn't see people looking past it easily. Perhaps Mental Defenses would allow them to see past the mental disguise; perhaps as a added PER chance?

Then that sounds to me more like Shapeshift with some sort of Limitation allowing a PER Roll. I like the idea of MD adding to INT for purposes of calculating this PER Roll - that means you can set the difficulty high enough that normals are statistically unlikely to see through it even in numbers, but people with decent MD have at least a chance.

 

Simple:

Do not get the "Secret Identitiy" Complication or at least buy it on a much lower level.

You just got a special effect for why she does not have any issues keeping her secret ID.

Well, there's a lot more to keeping an SID than simply not getting recognized. In fact, given how easy it is for heroes to disguise themselves in comics, I'd say that's a fairly minor part of it. To me, it's mostly about the whole Dual Life thing and conflicting responsibilities and all that stuff.

 

Honestly if the character only uses the illusion to avoid getting recognized, I'd be tempted to give it to them for free. It's not like we make "Mask Guy" pay points for the tiny domino mask that magically makes him unrecognizable to his closest friends. (Or conversely, glasses for his SID.) It's a genre trope, so call it sfx and go with it. But the OP didn't mention SID, so I get the sense he's looking for a broader disguise ability.

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Simple:

Do not get the "Secret Identitiy" Complication or at least buy it on a much lower level.

You just got a special effect for why she does not have any issues keeping her secret ID.

 

"A complication that can be avoided is not worth any points".

So a complication that can be lessened, is worth less points too.

Distinctive features even includes a "how easy it is to hide said feature" as part of the price. With mental illusion hiding about anything is pretty easy, so the value goes way down (without having to buy the power for it).

 

Allowing powers to negate Complications only ends up in munkinism where a 25 Point Complication is countered by a 5 point Power. Best to just not start with that :)

Truth, You Could buy Distinctive Look: Appears differant to each viewer, and a lowered SID, and call it good. That still gives some role play hooks...

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Well, there's a lot more to keeping an SID than simply not getting recognized. In fact, given how easy it is for heroes to disguise themselves in comics, I'd say that's a fairly minor part of it. To me, it's mostly about the whole Dual Life thing and conflicting responsibilities and all that stuff.

 

Honestly if the character only uses the illusion to avoid getting recognized, I'd be tempted to give it to them for free. It's not like we make "Mask Guy" pay points for the tiny domino mask that magically makes him unrecognizable to his closest friends. (Or conversely, glasses for his SID.) It's a genre trope, so call it sfx and go with it. But the OP didn't mention SID, so I get the sense he's looking for a broader disguise ability.

I agree with the "everyone with the Secret ID get's aproporate disguise ability". Captain Marvel/Shazaam becomes a big boy. Superman takes of his glasses. Batman dons a mask.

The whole idea behind a Secret Identitiy is that there is a identity to hide in the first place and that the character has the means to do so somehow. Many of hte Green lanterns did not have a Secret ID for example (I think Hal Jordan was one of the few, and it's stability was questionable).

 

But this thread comes dangerously close to the "negating a complication with a power" territory, so I find it nessesary to point it out that potentially poor path. Besides I also said that buying it as a lesser value is also an opton.

 

In any case buy the complications you actually want to play on the level you actually want to play them.

Not ones you do not want or on a level you do not want, that you then negate or lessen with a power.

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The Title of this thread is "Protecting your Secret ID with illusion."

Ah, so he did. Thanks.

 

Truth, You Could buy Distinctive Look: Appears differant to each viewer, and a lowered SID, and call it good. That still gives some role play hooks...

Assuming the PC has any control over this, I don't see how that's much of a Complication - more like a Limitation on the Power. Even if the character has no control over it, I still see that helping the character more often than it disadvantages them, so I'd go with Shapeshift/Images with NCC.

 

But this thread comes dangerously close to the "negating a complication with a power" territory, so I find it nessesary to point it out that potentially poor path. Besides I also said that buying it as a lesser value is also an opton.

Worth a caution sign, certainly, but not a deal-breaker in my opinion. It's hardly unusual to see characters with, say Blind as a Complication but Radar Sense as a Power. Or various Physical Complications that are compensated for when in their power armor. Or Distinctive Feature that are normally hidden by his mask when in costume. Etc. Definitely worth a second look and a discussion with the player, but assuming the character is sometimes put in situations where they sometimes come up then I don't see that as abusive per se, it just reduces the Frequency it comes up. (And if the Frequency approaches zero, well then it's not worth points.)

 

From my perspective, the Social Complication is mostly...y'know, a social thing. How you go about hiding your face to protect your SID is a separate question, which may involve Powers, Disguise skill, or just handwaving, and may or not be made more difficult by other Complications like Distinctive Features.

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The Title of this thread is "Protecting your Secret ID with illusion."

 

True, but the first post says

 

I have a mentalist character and I had the idea of disguising her looks from people by a sort of mental illusion that let's people see her as they want to see her, in a fashion similar to how the Star Trek Salt Monster did it in "The Man Trap".

 

Any suggestions?

Which

 

1) has some interesting implications for keeping that secret - "people see her as they want to see her" but cameras for example do not want to see her in any particular way. Anyone knowing the character's secret identity will recognize them in the footage. Anyone not knowing the character will realize they saw a different face than the footage shows. And anyone with the footage can start printing up posters with the character's face asking "Have you see this person?" or put the photo in the newspapers.

 

2) has implications beyond keeping the secret - even if the setting for some reason doesn't include things like cameras, the fact that no two witnesses describe the same thing may get noticed and remarked upon. "This is impossible" declares the detective, "there's no way one and the same person can look and sound like James Earl Jones, Grace Jones, and Tommy Lee Jones!"

 

Lucius Alexander

 

What does a palindromedary want to see?

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True, but the first post says

 

 

Which

 

1) has some interesting implications for keeping that secret - "people see her as they want to see her" but cameras for example do not want to see her in any particular way. Anyone knowing the character's secret identity will recognize them in the footage. Anyone not knowing the character will realize they saw a different face than the footage shows. And anyone with the footage can start printing up posters with the character's face asking "Have you see this person?" or put the photo in the newspapers.

 

2) has implications beyond keeping the secret - even if the setting for some reason doesn't include things like cameras, the fact that no two witnesses describe the same thing may get noticed and remarked upon. "This is impossible" declares the detective, "there's no way one and the same person can look and sound like James Earl Jones, Grace Jones, and Tommy Lee Jones!"

 

Lucius Alexander

 

What does a palindromedary want to see?

I know what the OP wrote. Bigdamnhero missed the reference to Secret ID. Just because it's in the title doesn't negate the fact that the OP did mention it.

 

Scott

 

The palindromedary didn't need to reply to me to make the other points.

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So, depending on the interpretation of the GM, there's a superheroic trope that many call on to generally not be immediately identifiable. If the GM goes along with it, my effort to use a form of mental illusion(not the Power) to disguise her appearance falls into the trope though some GMs might ask that I lower the frequency of the Secret ID Social Complication as the threat could be lessened by the fact that actually identifying her would be problematic since even with a picture, most people couldn't act as a witness, unless she dropped her guard in her civilian guise.

 

Now, if the GM makes me pay points, I'm putting this writeup out:

 

Disguise Appearance:  Change Environment (-8 to Sight Group PER Rolls), Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (42 Active Points); Only to keep from being able to identify her appearance (-2), No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Psionic (-1/2)

 

The idea stems from the fact that a person would normally make a Perception roll to identify a target and according to the rules, if they have a positive bonus to their vision check, they have no issue seeing the target, but if it is at 0 or negative, a Perception roll would be needed to see the target. By using negatives to Perception and making the penalty specifically affect identifying her, it doesn't affect people seeing her, just for picking up details of her appearance. So, they either didn't get the details to her or outright gets the wrong information, so they see her with completely incorrect information, thus seeing what they want to think and not the right info.

 

What do you think of this?

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If you want to have it be an illusion you could go with Images with limitations. If you want to go extreme, you could buy Invisibility and call it the ultimate illusion with the special effect of no one noticing who you really are (which is kind of like being invisible).

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Worth a caution sign, certainly, but not a deal-breaker in my opinion. It's hardly unusual to see characters with, say Blind as a Complication but Radar Sense as a Power. Or various Physical Complications that are compensated for when in their power armor. Or Distinctive Feature that are normally hidden by his mask when in costume. Etc. Definitely worth a second look and a discussion with the player, but assuming the character is sometimes put in situations where they sometimes come up then I don't see that as abusive per se, it just reduces the Frequency it comes up. (And if the Frequency approaches zero, well then it's not worth points.)

The "shifting targetting to alternate sense group" is codified in the ability to sell back senses. Inlcud9ing a mention that at the 3rd targetting sense, the cost should be lessened.

 

So, depending on the interpretation of the GM, there's a superheroic trope that many call on to generally not be immediately identifiable. If the GM goes along with it, my effort to use a form of mental illusion(not the Power) to disguise her appearance falls into the trope though some GMs might ask that I lower the frequency of the Secret ID Social Complication as the threat could be lessened by the fact that actually identifying her would be problematic since even with a picture, most people couldn't act as a witness, unless she dropped her guard in her civilian guise.

 

Now, if the GM makes me pay points, I'm putting this writeup out:

 

Disguise Appearance:  Change Environment (-8 to Sight Group PER Rolls), Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (42 Active Points); Only to keep from being able to identify her appearance (-2), No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Psionic (-1/2)

 

The idea stems from the fact that a person would normally make a Perception roll to identify a target and according to the rules, if they have a positive bonus to their vision check, they have no issue seeing the target, but if it is at 0 or negative, a Perception roll would be needed to see the target. By using negatives to Perception and making the penalty specifically affect identifying her, it doesn't affect people seeing her, just for picking up details of her appearance. So, they either didn't get the details to her or outright gets the wrong information, so they see her with completely incorrect information, thus seeing what they want to think and not the right info.

 

What do you think of this?

CE, self only is about the only way this penalty could work.

It can be used for "Stealth Suites" that are shy of full invisibility after all.

 

But honestly that writeup goes way overboard. You should ask why the others do not have to write up the same power for thier Costumes, but with Focus.

It is just a "costume by a different special effect". Indeed since it is psionic, you do not even get around still wearing a costume (just think about all those Mobile Phone Cameras).

Most of the times if you want to identify someone you would make a photo of that person anyway - much easier then making a Phantom image based on a description.

 

If you want to have it be an illusion you could go with Images with limitations. If you want to go extreme, you could buy Invisibility and call it the ultimate illusion with the special effect of no one noticing who you really are (which is kind of like being invisible).

Shape Shift, not Images would be the right power in the first case.

Unless you are stuck on the whole "Shape Shift" term - the power explicitly mentions use as self-only Disguise Illusion, like D&D Alter Self Spell - but a lot of people take the power name too literal.

I agree with the use of Invisibility - buy the full effect (not being seen at all), then limit it to a lesser effect (only for Discrimitation part of sight).

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how about changing the power slightly and base it off instant change

 

Cosmetic transform with improved results and make it constant, 0 END or to activate and make it uncontrolled.   After that you can add any MD and PER modifiers you want to add to make it perceivable 

The effect is that every phase your appearance shifts.  And maybe with an understanding GM keeping in the spirit of the power might let you say that everyone perceives you differently as the SFX.

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I have decided to go with the idea of assuming the trope of a minor illusion to cover identity will have to suffice (as Witchcraft does) and have given up the idea of having everyone seeing someone different as the basis for protecting secret ID.

 

Maybe I should try making her so hot that no one looks at her face because people are too focused on her boobs and butt?

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I have decided to go with the idea of assuming the trope of a minor illusion to cover identity will have to suffice (as Witchcraft does) and have given up the idea of having everyone seeing someone different as the basis for protecting secret ID.

 

Maybe I should try making her so hot that no one looks at her face because people are too focused on her boobs and butt?

Invisability, face/head area only, Only vs correct sexual interests....Always on?

 

 

"Power Girl has a Face??"

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  • 1 month later...

An interesting story on this was that whilst doing the media bit for Batman v Superman, Henry Cavill put on a superman T shirt to see if he was recognised in New York.

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/henry-cavill-takes-to-new-york-city-as-superman-and-nobody-recognises-him-a3205346.html

 

Either the glasses work or the sangfroid of New Yorkers to celebrity is really impressive ☺

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