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The Two Types Of Standard Effects.


steriaca
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People seem to be confused about Standard Effect.

 

Type One: Each dice is 3 points of effect/STUN and 1 BODY/3 BODY with Killing Attack (with STUN covered by timing BODY by the results of a single die).

 

Type Two: With the Linked power, the result is what the linked power does, so that you roll only one set of dice for both effects (as the original 4ed Transfer power, which is both a Drain and an Aid). It can be described as 'what gets through defenses' (because it makes sense for some special effects).

 

Oddly, there are people who are confused that the second part exists. It is the "Transfer Exception", but can be used for much more than Drain+Aid. Imagine a Blast, AVAD (Sight based Flash Defense), and a Linked Sight based Flash attack. Add Standard Effect on Flash, and you roll one set of dice for both effects. Or prehaps Blast and a Linked Drain. Or a Transform and Linked Mental Blast.

 

This only works well if both powers have the equal amount of dice and the Linked is described as they both must be done at the equal level. Unified Power is not needed, but there should be no reason to omit it.

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Here's a thought: should the Linked power qualify for Standard Effect? if I must use my 4d6 Aid in proportion to my 4d6 Drain, and 3d6 of my Drain is suppressed, I can't use the same 3d6 of my Aid - they have to be in proportion. Adding UP seems like I get an extra -1/4 for no extra drawbacks, doesn't it?

 

EDIT: Not Standard Effect - Unified Power. See below

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Here's a thought: should the Linked power qualify for Standard Effect? if I must use my 4d6 Aid in proportion to my 4d6 Drain, and 3d6 of my Drain is suppressed, I can't use the same 3d6 of my Aid - they have to be in proportion. Adding UP seems like I get an extra -1/4 for no extra drawbacks, doesn't it?

Unified Power is not Standard Effect. It does seem "for free", but remember, Unified Power is the replacement for Elemental Control.

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I've always assumed that, with two Linked Powers with the same number of dice, you could roll the dice once and use the same roll for both Powers.  At worst I'd call that a "with GM permission" kind of thing.  It never occurred to me that that was Standard Effect; I've always seen the meaning of Standard Effect as meaning every die is automatically 3.

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Type Two: With the Linked power, the result is what the linked power does, so that you roll only one set of dice for both effects

 

This is, to me at least, a reasonable idea and I have no problem with the application, it just isn't mentioned in the 6th edition rules anywhere I can find, only in an example.  Probably for clarity, it ought to have a different name than "Standard Effect" at least in my opinion. Maybe "United Power" or something like that.

 

I've always assumed that, with two Linked Powers with the same number of dice, you could roll the dice once and use the same roll for both Powers.

 

That makes life easier and I wouldn't have any problem with people doing that with their power builds as a GM.

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Where does it state this in the 6E rulebook?

 

The Standard Effect of 3 points per die is on 6e1 p. 133.  Using the same dice roll for two Linked Powers with the same number of dice is I think something we routinely did back when I first started playing and I don't think is in the book anywhere.  If you're asking about something else, please clarify.  :)

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The Standard Effect of 3 points per die is on 6e1 p. 133. Using the same dice roll for two Linked Powers with the same number of dice is I think something we routinely did back when I first started playing and I don't think is in the book anywhere. If you're asking about something else, please clarify. :)

There is no official rule about Standard Effect 2, BUT all the write-ups I seen of the Drain/Aid combo power used Standard Effect to do the two effects on one roll thing.

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Unified Power is not Standard Effect. It does seem "for free", but remember, Unified Power is the replacement for Elemental Control.

My error - I did not mean "standard effect", but "unified power". If I have 4d6 Drain linked to 4d6 Aid, and my Drain is Suppressed by 2d6, can I still use 4d6 Aid even without UP?

 

Considering UP means loss of AP in the same amount, UP would not actually reduce the Aid and Drain in lockstep.

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There is no official rule about Standard Effect 2, BUT all the write-ups I seen of the Drain/Aid combo power used Standard Effect to do the two effects on one roll thing.

So this "fact" isn't RAW, which automatically makes it a house-rule. That's perfectly acceptable, but shouldn't be presented as a fact. It also invalidates your original post. No one is confused about a rule that doesn't exist.

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 If I have 4d6 Drain linked to 4d6 Aid, and my Drain is Suppressed by 2d6, can I still use 4d6 Aid even without UP? 

 

Yes, because unless you buy the linked proportionate, then it just makes the powers go off at the same time, it doesn't affect how they act.

 

Unified Power doesn't affect how the powers behave either, it simply makes them all linked so if one is reduced, all of them are.  So if you have one of your unified powers drained all of them are

 

"If a negative Adjustment Power affects any of the powers in a Unified Power suite, it affects all of them in the same amount."
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So this "fact" isn't RAW, which automatically makes it a house-rule. That's perfectly acceptable, but shouldn't be presented as a fact. It also invalidates your original post. No one is confused about a rule that doesn't exist.

 

That's a little harsh.  The Transfer power build in Champions Complete does say "standard effect:  same roll as Drain dice".  Offhand I don't recall what it says in 6e1 or Champions Powers; it might actually use the "standard effect" verbiage there also.

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That's a little harsh. The Transfer power build in Champions Complete does say "standard effect: same roll as Drain dice". Offhand I don't recall what it says in 6e1 or Champions Powers; it might actually use the "standard effect" verbiage there also.

It is there and has been always there in the power build. Just because the writers forgot to mention it in the text itself, only in the power write-up don't make it not RAW.

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That's a little harsh.  The Transfer power build in Champions Complete does say "standard effect:  same roll as Drain dice".  Offhand I don't recall what it says in 6e1 or Champions Powers; it might actually use the "standard effect" verbiage there also.

Maybe, but the OP is the one who stated it isn't documented.

 

6E1 doesn't use that phrasing and it isn't covered in the SER description. Powers uses it without any additional SER definition. APG II references 6E1 as an example of this use of the SER, even though it isn't used that way in 6E1.

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I still say that the effect should be in the rules, at least as an option, but called something different.  Standard Effect is 3 points per die, call it something else when both dice of a linked effect are identical.  Banded effect or Affiliated, some synonym that gets the point across but doesn't sound too much like Unified.

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I still say that the effect should be in the rules, at least as an option, but called something different.  Standard Effect is 3 points per die, call it something else when both dice of a linked effect are identical.  Banded effect or Affiliated, some synonym that gets the point across but doesn't sound too much like Unified.

 

If 'Proportional' weren't already being used in relation to Skill Rolls, I'd suggest that.  Perhaps 'Reciprocal' could work.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, because unless you buy the linked proportionate, then it just makes the powers go off at the same time, it doesn't affect how they act.

 

Unified Power doesn't affect how the powers behave either, it simply makes them all linked so if one is reduced, all of them are.  So if you have one of your unified powers drained all of them are

Somehow lost reference to "proportional" as the thread moved on, but I believe the original ability was Linked proportionally. Having Linked Proportionally and Unified Power seems like getting points twice for the same limit.

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Somehow lost reference to "proportional" as the thread moved on, but I believe the original ability was Linked proportionally. Having Linked Proportionally and Unified Power seems like getting points twice for the same limit.

 

Why? "Linked Proportionally" means that they must be used together, at the same power level. "Unified" means that if one power is Drained/Suppressed/etc, then both are. They aren't the same thing.

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Why? "Linked Proportionally" means that they must be used together, at the same power level. "Unified" means that if one power is Drained/Suppressed/etc, then both are. They aren't the same thing.

Hmm...I think it depends on how we're interpreting  "Proportionally." If Power A and Power B are both normally 60 AP, and Power A is Drained to 30 AP, how much can you use Power B at? My assumption has always been that you could only use B at 30 AP because that's proportional to A. But I guess an alternative interpretation would be that as long as you're using Power A at its current full power (ie 30 AP), then you can use B at its current full power (ie 60 AP). I don't think the latter interpretation makes much sense, but I can't say it's wrong based on a plain reading of RAW (6e1 p385).

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I think it also depends on how often your players use their powers at less than full power. I can't say it never happens in our games - there's the occasional "pulling my punch so I don't kill this mook" moment - but it's certainly not something that comes up frequently enough to warrant a Limitation. YMMV.

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