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Partially Restricting Martial Arts


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I'm building a character using bartitsu, and I'm wondering if anyone's built a martial art where not all of the martial maneuvers of the art can be used with the weapon elements associated with it. For instance, I think it's a touch weird to use a "Joint Lock" with a blade, especially when the art is primarily focused around clubs and hands.

 

Should I just use a separator within the art to designate which maneuvers work with which weapon elements? I feel that I should give a slight point discount, since that is not what RAW intended (that I've seen).

 

Anyone else face this problem? Did you just build an armed and unarmed version of your arts?

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Rather than Limit the Maneuver, I'd say the Weapon Element is where the Limitation would apply.

 

And a Weapon Element already only costs 1 pt.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary points out that if you buy the Maneuver for empty hand and then do NOT buy a Weapon Element to use it with a sword, you can't use it with a sword, but that's not a Limitation.

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Also, don't the rules already state that not all maneuvers in an art can be used with weapons, depending on description. I seem to recall something about not using maneuvers defined as kicks with your sword. Kind of like how different maneuvers will use different hit location rolls by maneuver description.

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Also, don't the rules already state that not all maneuvers in an art can be used with weapons, depending on description. I seem to recall something about not using maneuvers defined as kicks with your sword. Kind of like how different maneuvers will use different hit location rolls by maneuver description.

 

 

I thought so too, but couldn't find it!

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From page 10 of Ultimate Martial Artist:

"Characters can use some martial arts with weapons.  But not all maneuvers apply to all weapons; a kick can't work with a machete, and holding a spear doesn't improve a dodge."

 

A quick read-through of the write-ups for Fencing, Arnis/Kali/Escrima, and the rules for creating a custom martial art doesn't seem to indicate any kind of price breaks for maneuvers that are limited to being used with weapons.

 

Fencing specifically states that it's designed for use with Blades and characters "may not buy Fencing maneuvers for other classes of weapons . . . or for use in unarmed combat".

 

Arnis/Kali/Escrima talks about adding WF: Barehanded to allow some of the maneuvers to be done without a weapon.

 

So, I'd basically do what you suggested originally and just specify which maneuvers can be done barehanded.

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I'd have no problem using a blade with a joint lock. Either of two cases could apply: 1. Using the blade as a lever, possibly sheathed, as you would with a baton/club or b. Using the hand not holding the blade, or holding the blade in a way that doesn't interfere with the maneuver.

 

I'd consider both cases as advanced techniques, so if we're talking about an art that's "primarily focused around clubs and hands," I think it'd be fair to rule that it doesn't have such advanced techniques and only allow blades with basic hand strikes.

 

I'm 97.325% sure that as far back as Ninja Hero, limiting what maneuvers were allowed to take weapons elements has been part of the extended Martial Arts rules.

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remember that there are 6 sides to a knife
2 to 3 of them do killing damage(point,bottom edge sometimes the top edge w/ double edged blades

so you still have 3 to 4 sides to play with
large guards/cross pieces and cages just add to the fun

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A closed pocket knife I would use as a kubaton and directly attack pressure points.

Having done both joint lock and pressure point work (background primarily in judo and aikido), I would class them as different things (though you can use one to enhance/assist the other) and considering the fiddliness of pressure points, I stand by my finesse statement.

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Having done both joint lock and pressure point work (background primarily in judo and aikido), I would class them as different things (though you can use one to enhance/assist the other) and considering the fiddliness of pressure points, I stand by my finesse statement.

Well with my Hapkido background, I stand by my statement. : )

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i'm just saying that pressure points require more finesse than joint locks do.  There's, of course, some variations within the given groups of techniques themselves.  After all, Jugi Gatame (cross arm bar), Ude Garami (key lock/entangled arm lock) or Gyaku Ude Garami (Kimura/reverse key lock) can be taught to a beginner without much trouble.  On the other hand, Ashi Sankaku Garami (Omoplata) is a bit more fiddly.  A folded pocket knife won't help much with any of those.  A stick, jo or bokken (never mind a real sword), can make pretty much any key lock very nasty with the extra leverage. 

 

Pressure points, on the other hand, are smaller and harder to find.  So the precision needs to be higher.  I've always seen students struggle more with getting pressure points right than with a Jugi Gatame.

 

As for them being different things, sure you've got techniques that blend both but those are, indeed a blending.  For example, Yonkyo is a wristlock that includes a pressure point manipulation.  However, you can get the wrist lock without engaging the pressure point.  You can also target that pressure point without doing a wrist lock.

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