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Vines power


knasser2

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I want to make a power for a character that allows them to conjure vines that wrap around people and bind them up.

 

The basic power seemed simple enough (though correct me if I've made a mistake)

 

 

Clutching Vines (real cost: 5CP)
    Entangle 1d6 (10CP)
    Increased Endurance x3 (-1)

 

I want to do something a little fancy, though. Firstly, I would like to make the vines do progressive damage for as long as someone is entangled. Say 2d6(N) per turn. Entangle doesn't do damage by itself and Damage Over Time modifier seems both geared towards powers that do and also is built around a set time limit whereas with this it's unknown how long it will be before the victim escapes (and indeed will vary depending on how powerful the victim is). Suggestions? Should I make it a Multi-power based around HTH and add Entangle?

 

All replies appreciated! :)

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I believe that you link the blast with entangle and make it a constant power.

 

So it would be something like this...?

 

Vine Whip (11 CP)

    Entangle 1d6 (5CP Real Cost)
    Increased Endurance x3 (-1)
 
    Blast 2d6 (6CP Real Cost)
    Linked -½
    Constant +½
    Increased Endurance x3 (-1)

 

How would that work in practice? It seems like you'd have to roll attack twice - once for each power? Honestly, I'm not sure about the above. So the character would roll an initial attack and then spend 1 Endurance every turn to do 2d6 (N) against the entangled person each turn? It would have to end when the target escaped the entangle. Is that worth a limitation on the Blast as the PC can't maintain it as normal?

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With Linked, you only make a single attack roll for the Linked powers (see Champions Complete pg 109, last paragraph of the right-hand column).

 

For the constriction effect, I'd go with Damage over Time with escaping the entangle being the negation condition (as required by DoT). 

 

Constant would be the classic (pre 6E) way of building this and is still entirely valid.  In that case, you'd have to pay END and the target would take damage on each of your Phases.  If you added Uncontrolled, you wouldn't have to worry about maintaining it; you'd just pay an amount of END up front for how long you want it to last.  Again, escaping the entangle would be the negation condition.

 

You could also build this effect with Telekinesis used to grab and squeeze the target.

 

Then there's more exotic options like summoning a plant-creature that grabs and squeezes the target for you.

 

If you have access to it, you may want to check out the Tangling Growth power in the Champions Powers book (pg 370).

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I want to make a power for a character that allows them to conjure vines that wrap around people and bind them up.

 

The basic power seemed simple enough (though correct me if I've made a mistake)

 

 

Clutching Vines (real cost: 5CP)
    Entangle 1d6 (10CP)
    Increased Endurance x3 (-1)
 

I want to do something a little fancy, though. Firstly, I would like to make the vines do progressive damage for as long as someone is entangled. Say 2d6(N) per turn. Entangle doesn't do damage by itself and Damage Over Time modifier seems both geared towards powers that do and also is built around a set time limit whereas with this it's unknown how long it will be before the victim escapes (and indeed will vary depending on how powerful the victim is). Suggestions? Should I make it a Multi-power based around HTH and add Entangle?

 

All replies appreciated! :)

 

It's not "unknown how long it will be fore the victim escapes." Unless the victim is Aunt May, the escape is almost immediate, because you have bought such a tiny Entangle.

 

 

You could also build this effect with Telekinesis used to grab and squeeze the target.

I was thinking exactly this. I may try writing it up.

 

edit: Like this

Strangling Vines: (Total: 68 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Telekinesis (25 STR), Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+1/4), Uncontrolled (+1/2) (68 Active Points); Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Limited Power Only to grab, hold, and squeeze (-1/2), Physical Manifestation (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 27)

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks that's a vine idea.

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It's not "unknown how long it will be fore the victim escapes." Unless the victim is Aunt May, the escape is almost immediate, because you have bought such a tiny Entangle.

 

Well it's meant to be a very low-level power used against low-level opponents. A goblin might do 1d6-1 Body damage with its knife so it may not be that immediate. Also, the PC can continue to cast it adding more and more entangle each phase. So they could conceivably keep a victim entangled for a very long time.

 

EDIT: Also, I'm trying to keep the cost of the power down. When you have a Fighter next to you who can do 2d6 Lethal every Phase standing next to you with the battle axe that they just bought and it requires only 2 Endurance per swing with it (easily recovered), and this doesn't cost them more than around 3CP to meet the Str Minimum with the weapon, I don't want the druid player to feel too ripped off. In fact, this is becoming a general problem in that fighters are simply buying their equipment which gives them offensive power (weapons) and defences (armour) whereas the non-fighters are paying a LOT of points for things that are no more powerful. My current vine power version following suggestions here is already costing 10CP which is a lot. The fighter can get 15 Strength and 15 Constituion for that! Ramping up the amount of Entangle takes it a lot of 10CP as well.

 

 

Clutching Vines (11 CP)
    Entangle 1d6 (10CP; real cost: 5CP)
       Increased Endurance x3 (-1)
    
    Blast 2d6 (10CP; real cost 6CP);
       Increased Endurance x2 (-½)
       No Range (-½)
       Linked -½
       Constant +½
       Limited (Mostly wont trigger) -½
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If your spellcasters have more than one spell, I'd suggest looking into a MultiPower for them.  If they've got more than about 3 spells with similar Active Point values, the MultiPower should save them some points.

 

Otherwise, you can look at applying an arbitrary campaign rule that divides the cost of all spells by 2 or 3 in order to make up for the free equipment that non-spellcasters get.

 

A third option is to use the Resource Pool rules from APG1 for all equipment and spells.

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Constant would be the classic (pre 6E) way of building this and is still entirely valid.  In that case, you'd have to pay END and the target would take damage on each of your Phases.  If you added Uncontrolled, you wouldn't have to worry about maintaining it; you'd just pay an amount of END up front for how long you want it to last.  Again, escaping the entangle would be the negation condition.

Or you add 0 END - escaping the entangle is easy enough. Maybe you buy a bigger entangle with no Defense (everyone can wriggle free given enough time).

 

I like the TK option.

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Or you add 0 END - escaping the entangle is easy enough. Maybe you buy a bigger entangle with no Defense (everyone can wriggle free given enough time).

 

I like the TK option.

 

Yeah, with the Entangle being as weak as it is, I wouldn't mind the 0 END Continuous build like I normally would.

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If you're worried about how many "free points" martial characters get for free through Equipment, I suggest writing some equipment that spellcaster's can buy to improve their abilities. For example, you could have a Magic Wand or Spellbook which grants between 2 and 6 3 to 5-point CSLs with given sets of spells or schools of magic. That way mages can add the same number of Free DCs to their spells that warriors get for free.

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Or you can just explain that spellcasters aren't meant to go beat warriors at the warriors' own game of dealing out and soaking up damage, and emphasize the other neat stuff they can do, like healing or detecting and warding off curses etc.

 

Or load up on appropriate Limitations such as Gestures, Incantations, etc. Here's a more reasonably priced Strangling Vines:

 

Strangling Vines: (Total: 29 Active Cost, 7 Real Cost)

Entangle 1d6, 2 PD/2 ED (15 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; Only In Certain Circumstances Very Common; When vegatation is not naturally present; -3/4), Vulnerable (Common; Fire; -1/2), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; Power: Druidry; -1/2), Entangle Has 1 BODY (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4), Susceptible Uncommon (magical Dispels; -1/4), Nonresistant DEF (-1/4) (Real Cost: 3)

<b>plus</b>

Blast 1d6, Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+1/4), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Plate armor, no need to breathe, or otherwise resistant to strangling/crushing; All Or Nothing; +1/2), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2) (14 Active Points); Linked (Entangle; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; Power: Druidry; -1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; Only In Certain Circumstances Very Common; When vegatation is not naturally present; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4), Cannot Be Used With Haymaker (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks it could be even cheaper with an Expendable Focus: Seeds

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Lucius, "entangle has 1 BOD" only applies to the BOD dice if the Entangle has PD/ED not equal to the BOD dice. A 2d6, 2 DEF entangle would probably work just as well - a normal STR character will likely pass out before breaking out, but most heroes are made of sterner stuff, and a weapon will break a victim out pretty quickly. Not sure I would make the defenses non-resistant either.

 

I'd also note that Reduced Endurance and Increased Endurance, by RAW, cannot be taken on the same power. "Only to Activate" is a form "Reduced END". I'd allow a minor limitation for costing more END, but a power with END only to activate (+1/4) should not have its cost halved by costing 3 uses of END to activate. If this Blast removed the +1/4 advantage, you could still pump 3 points of END in each time and it would probably keep crushing until the Entangle is broken.

 

No Haymakers depends on how often Haymakers are used, but you can likely add some other maneuvers - that was the rationale for the "Spell Limitation" back in 5e.

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Or you can just explain that spellcasters aren't meant to go beat warriors at the warriors' own game of dealing out and soaking up damage, and emphasize the other neat stuff they can do, like healing or detecting and warding off curses etc.

I've never been fond of that "solution" to the Martial vs. Caster Disparity in Hero System.

On the one hand, a warrior is only getting 30 points for free at most, so its not like they are going to break the game too badly. But on the other hand, its only 30 points at most, it shouldn't be that hard to come up with up to 30 points worth of normal equipment for casters to buy with money.

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It's not "unknown how long it will be fore the victim escapes." Unless the victim is Aunt May, the escape is almost immediate, because you have bought such a tiny Entangle.

 

 

 

I was thinking exactly this. I may try writing it up.

 

edit: Like this

Strangling Vines: (Total: 68 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Telekinesis (25 STR), Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+1/4), Uncontrolled (+1/2) (68 Active Points); Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Limited Power Only to grab, hold, and squeeze (-1/2), Physical Manifestation (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 27)

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks that's a vine idea.

I like this too however iirc squeezing a target takes longer to choke someone in hero though it can be done. And that may not be a bad idea either.

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