Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

GCMorris

4, 5 or 6?

Recommended Posts

What are the differences between the editions? I really hate learning new systems but I feel like my 4e is pretty dated. I'm not sure if our group is going to get back together after our summer hiatus but I'm wanting to take a serious turn at being a player for a while. I would like to rebuild my brick Verbeeg (Very Big) with the new rules but I'm not sure it's worth the investment.

 

Enlighten me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are several one to two page sheets describing the difference.

 

From a functional point of view, you could play most characters in one into another.  I usually allow this at cons.  The big functional differences is the lack of find weakness/lack of weakness in 6th and penetrating has its own defense impenetrable (+1/4).

 

From a build point of view, there are a lot of changes between the two especially between 6th and the other editions.  Growth gets really reamed in points in 6th.  If you are going to update, I would suggest going for 6th and getting Champions Complete as the cheaper way to go about it (buy CC online and they will give you a PDF copy for free last I looked).  I think most longtime GMs favor 5th over 6th for the most part (most due to the way growth and barrier were broken in 6th).

 

You can get 5th (and 6th) core rulebooks via print on demand IIRC if you can't find it in the HERO games online store.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you (and your group) is already accustomed to 4th edition, then I wouldn't advise switching to another version unless there is some really compelling reason to do so. Most 5e supplements will work without alteration in 4e, though there will be references to limitations and advantages here and there that aren't in 4e. Those are really easy to just take from 5e and use in 4e as needed.

 

The jump to 6e is much more involved and not recommended (by me) unless you really want to use the 6e core library books for equipment or monsters. Is there a 6e campaign setting you are desperate to use? I suspect not, and if not, then I would recommend not bothering with 6e.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Echoing the above, 4E and 5E are 95+% the same.  6E drops to about 90%.  If you're familiar with one, you're familiar with the others.  Biggest changes are mostly in point costs for powers; once you're playing it doesn't make much difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5th edition has a few cost changes from 4th edition.  Aid doubled to 10 pts per D6.  Transform became cumulative by default.  They screwed around with Regeneration and Instant Change, building them out of other powers instead of leaving them separate.  And they added a ton more options (i.e., complexity) that didn't exist in 4th.

 

5th edition is a pretty good change from 4th.  The rules aren't quite as tight, but the extra options are nice.

 

6th edition made some big changes.  The biggest one is that it removed Figured Characteristics.  Having a high Str or Con doesn't give you any Stun or other stats.  Everything is bought separately.  And then they completely reworked the costs on a lot of things, including stats, skill levels, and many powers.  6th is like 75% the same game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that 6e gives players is an increased amount of flexability in character generation. If they want a high OCV low DCV character they don't have to do it with Skill levels. Also the Dex/Spd wars end with 6e. PC's don't HAVE to have high strength and high dex to have a decent secondary characteristics.

Also no more Elemental controls, No GM's having to say "no that doesn't belong in an EC, or Yeah, you can put that in the EC even though it's illegal", no more split powers where the EC is small and you have part of the power in the EC and the rest without any bonus. It's all been replaced by a handy Limitation "Unified Power" which links all powers of a given special effect together. It means that if one power is drained they are all drained by the same amount. It's much more simple to use and simplifies the math a TON. BTW in 5e EC's assume that all powers inside the EC are drained when any power is drained that is in the EC.

Area Effect Advantage is much more flexable with being able to choose the size of the AOE, also Explosion is a part of the AOE advantage and cheapens the advantage like Uncontrolled Selective does in 4e.

Growth is expensive in 6e because it includes all of the things it included in 3rd ed (reach, running bonus, KB resistance etc).

there are a ton of other changes in Character Gen that are very cool and very worth looking at. Champions Complete is a great way to get 6e. It doesn't have as many examples and nitty gritty edge case rulings, but it has everything you need. IMHO it's the best $40 you can spend on a game.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll mention one of my favorite 6e modifications: Armor Piercing is actually viable now. As a +1/4 advantage, it can be the hero's primary attack in a Champions game without crippling him every time we see hardened defenses. [Funny how we will typically not let an AP attack exceed the DC cap, but we generally have no problem with campaign max defenses being Hardened...]

 

Expanding on Tasha's comment on Figured, many costing (while not perfect) is vastly improved. Skill levels are much closer with the changes to characteristics. It is actually viable to buy more STUN, END and REC rather than Defenses and Reduced END.

 

Overall, though, the "sames" vastly outweigh the changes, it's the same game and it plays the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I'm not sure that 6E1&2 are worth investing in if you are looking to try a new edition, Champions or Fantasy Hero Complete definitely ​are. My wife jumped straight from 4th edition to CC/FHC, and I jumped straight from 5th edition to CC/FHC. I feel like its impossible to find anything in 6E1&2, so while I like the ruleset, I hate those particular books. 6th edition supplements convert just as easily to CC/FHC as they do to any other edition in that 95% of the material is fine as is, but the costs of certain things change slightly (namely certain skills which were imploded in CC/FHC).

I'm certain there is a document floating around the net somewhere that details many of the changes made from edition to edition, but I'm not sure where you would find it now... I think it might be available for free on Paizo's site, or as part of the digital package for Champions Complete.

 

Character generation is a bit different, but I think overall it has improved (at least since 5th). My wife is sad they got rid of Figured Characteristics and Elemental Controls, but personally I think it makes character generation much easier by removing most of the fiddly math from character optimization. In 5th edition I felt like I had to use Hero Designer to build anything, with CC/FHC I generally don't bother using it at all.

 

Once you get into Gameplay itself, I feel like 6E/CC/FHC are all basically the same as 4th & 5th, neither my wife nor I had any trouble making the transition to CC/FHC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious how one similarly "trims down" the character writeups in books like the 6e Enemies books? They are all really good examples of how 6e hs evolved into the system afflicted with Massive Blocks of Inscruitable Text syndrome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious how one similarly "trims down" the character writeups in books like the 6e Enemies books? They are all really good examples of how 6e hs evolved into the system afflicted with Massive Blocks of Inscruitable Text syndrome.

 

Most of those write ups create full characters instead of a simple power writeup. It makes the character sheet longer, but it's nice seeing a fully fleshed out character YMMV. Many of us have been building complex characters since 4e.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To navigate 6e1 and 6e2 you either use the index (which includes page numbers for both books in both books) or you use the Table of Contents. On the PDF it's generally easier to use the PDF's Table of Contents. Even without that Once you understand how the books are organized it's not very hard to find stuff. They are organized exactly like 5e and 5er.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's how I see the editions:

 

4th: simple layout but organized, unites different Hero products into one system, excellent support and source materials, adventures, etc.

5th: organizes better and more clearly creates one system to run all genres under, adds some great new features for build concepts and fixes some problems with past editions

6th: streamlines character creation and increases flexibility, gives exhaustive rules and examples for every situation. Excellent third party support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's how I see the editions:

 

4th: simple layout but organized, unites different Hero products into one system, excellent support and source materials, adventures, etc.

5th: organizes better and more clearly creates one system to run all genres under, adds some great new features for build concepts and fixes some problems with past editions

6th: streamlines character creation and increases flexibility, gives exhaustive rules and examples for every situation. Excellent third party support.

you missed an edition

5er: Still organized great and has the fixes of 5th but gives exhaustive rules and examples for every situation. Has great Hero Games support with a ton of supplements and Genre books.

 

Champions Complete. Has the Character design Options of 6e, but has a more simple layout and organization. Fewer Edge Case rulings and examples. Simplifies some powers. Is 6e just edited down into something easier to digest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GCMorris my take is that as if now I'm using 5th rev. One of the biggest things they added in that addition in the expansion of Change Enviroment. Now my brother bought Fantasy Hero Complete so I'm learning 6th. And I got to say if I see Champions Complete I will get it. It seems to me every edition has changes that are good and some that are not. 6th got rid of transfer which inme is no biggie cause I never used it. Then my brother want a spell that has it. Not the biggist deal in the world. (He want spells from the old fantasy hero from 4th) Oh 5th changed the way you buy permantely large or small characters now.

 

Seriously I think adding OMCV and ODCV to the list of characteristics is a pain but really I'm liking the removal of figured characteristics. And actually liking that armor and force field is one power: Resistant Protection at 3/2 cost. To make it like force field add cost end lim.

 

But that's my take on it. Btw I'm a tightwad and im looking to buy it-Champions Complete that is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more thought. I did pick up Basic for 6th ed but with it missing some powers, I don't recommend it. For example it still had HA and says that you can put modifiers on it but doeant explain how that works. Even tho I know how it works, it really limits some builds imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also in 5th hand attack is now worth 5 pts per d6 with a mandatory HA lim of (-1/2). Also in 6th they got rid of COM and added if needed Striking Appearence. To be honest I was in the camp of how dare they change things but really it suits my build philosophy just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×