How Super is Superman?

[Cassandra]

Faster then a Speeding Bullet could be handled a couple of ways.  One would be Teleportation with the special effect a super speed movement.  The other would be Extra-Dimensional Movement [into a Dimension where everyone is Frozen in Time] which would be him moving at the speed of light.  

[Cantriped]

Bullets aren't faster than light, so I don't think EDM is necessary or useful in this instance.

 

If "Faster Than A Speeding Bullet" is the metric to be used, we need only look up the available scientific data regarding the muzzle velocities of various firearms. From there we can easily ensure that Superman can move at least as fast as the fastest bullet, and always has a DCV comperable to what said velocity would give under the Velocity Based DCV rules (Not that superman often dodges anything).

[Hyper-Man]

I'd argue the always part. My version can get up to 15 DCV (Mach 1 only provides 13) when performing a dodge.

 

HM

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I don't think Superman's speed is about dodging but about movement.  He's shown to be running or flying when the "faster than a" line comes up, so its not that he dodges its that he's mobile.  And until the silver age they didn't think of that as combat speed either, it was travel speed.

[Hyper-Man]

He's always fast enough to interpose himself between Lois and any harm heading her way (this would be handled via DFC in combat situations and is another reason I built my version with +4/5 Overall Levels).  In one of the 1st or 2nd season Animated Justice League episodes where they first tried "practicing" together Clark complained about always having to keep an eye out for everyone else in case they needed saving.  Of course, nearly everyone was trying to outdo each other.

 

HM

[assault]

I think for actual game purposes, I would start with Action Comics #1, and maybe build on it a little.

 

"When maturity was reached, he discovered he could easily:

 

Leap 1/8th of a mile; hurdle a twenty story building...

 

Raise tremendous weights...

 

...Run faster than an express train...

 

.And that nothing less than a bursting shell could penetrate his skin!"

 

That's a character in the starting player character range.

 

With careful use of a Multipower, he could easily grow into the rest of his powers, although his Senses and Life Support would need to be bought outside of it.

 

I did a version of him for 5e many years ago, but it was hobbled by being limited to 250 points. I've tried rebuilding him for 6e (on 400 points), but I've never been happy with the result. 500 would work nicely.

[assault]

Since I posted that I've done a "proof of concept" draft and a "first refinement" version. It's sitting in my notebook.

 

It's rubbish and incomplete, but here it as, as far as it goes:

 

60 Str 50

13 Dex 6

20 Con 10

10 Int 0

10 Ego 0

20 Pre 10

8 OCV 25

6 DCV 15

3 OMCV 0

3 DMCV 0

4 SPD 20

2 PD 0

2 ED 0

24 REC 20

50 END 6

56 STUN 18

10 Body 0

Characteristic Cost: 180

 

60 Damage Reduction (50% PD Resistant, 50% ED Resistant)

54 Resistant Protection (18 PD, 18 ED)

60 Multipower Base (Superpowers)

6 Leaping (Whatever)

5 Running (Whatever)

 

15 +15 Lighting Reflexes (Superspeed)

 

20 Skills and Perks

---

220 Powers, Talents, Skills, Perks

180 Characteristics

---

400 Points Total

 

This was written without access to the rules, so errors are likely.

 

Notable absences: Life Support, Enhanced Senses, Regeneration, Knockback Resistance. Also, he's more likely to fail his skill rolls that he should.

 

This was a draft written on a bus and at the pub after work.

 

He's not the most efficient character he could be - I was constrained by the desire to include Damage Reduction and a big Multipower base. The idea is that Damage Reduction scales - it becomes more effective the bigger attack, and is therefore a good thing to have if you are mucking about with high power attacks. It's difficult to buy with experience. Also, a big Multipower base means that it is cheap and easy to add new powers.

 

The Damage Reduction is the only thing that is likely to raise a GM's eyebrows. It could of course be replaced with a bunch of characteristics, which would also allow him to buy some other stuff. The idea is for him to grow quickly, however, so that's why I tried to buy the expensive stuff at the beginning.

 

Other options include building Silver Age Supergirl. While she technically had "all Superman's powers", she actually exhibited a more limited set, and could have (many of) her powers turned off by Kryptonite and Red Sun radiation.

 

And then there is Bronze Age Power Girl.

 

Ultra Boy would be an interesting variation too.

[assault]

I'm not going to bother with another pass over the character here, but I would take advantage of the points I allocated to his Multipower, radically shave his Strength, and replace it with a Multipower slot.

 

The points I saved could go towards buying Life Support, but I would actually spend them on buying up his Speed.

 

I could also put OCV and DCV in the MP, but that's kind of squicky. It would, however, raise his combat power to a level where I could spend his experience on non-combat stuff for the extended period necessary to fill the obvious gaps.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I like the idea of a half UltraBoy concept, where he has half of superman's powers, then can choose one at a time to turn on full power.  Like half his invulnerability and half his strength, etc.  Some of the powers like X-Ray Vision would have to function differently, maybe he sees in the dark, then can see through objects by turning on that power.  Its a cheap build with few drawbacks.

[GhostDancer]

Mega Boy! Kid Supreme! Atomo!

[Christopher R Taylor]

Of course, half as strong in Hero terms is... 5 points less

[DasBroot]

Of course, half as strong in Hero terms is... 5 points less

 

Yeah, that's always struck me as funny - especially with high strength characters.

 

A 10 point roll on a strength aid takes a character able to lift 100 tons (60) to 400 (70)... and adds a whopping +2d6.

 

Somehow I just don't think the physics involved in something being able to exert an extra 300 tons of lifting force translate to adding the force of a senior citizen with a baseball bat to the mix.

 

I like it, mind you - being able to lift super heavy objects is more of 'neat' effect in superhero comics than utterly dominating - and I don't know about most games but in mine there's very few four hundred ton objects laying around the battlefield for someone who Pushes with a 60 strength to capitalise on.

 

(That was actually a joke with a ridiculously super strong NPC in one of my games one time: He was built with a partial limitation on his strength so that it only applied to lifting after strength 70.  He could lift a mountain - literally - with a strength of 250 but what's he going to do with it?  Throw it two meters and squish himself?)

[Cantriped]

That is kinda silly, considering that Throw Distance is factored based on the objects weight versus your maximum lift. So anything that increases your max lift should also be increasing your throw distance.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I like it, mind you - being able to lift super heavy objects is more of 'neat' effect in superhero comics than utterly dominating

 

I do too, its a feature, more than a bug.  I argued for dropping the melee damage connection to strength entirely in 6th edition along with leaping to bring down Strength's power compared to its cost.  Because just being really strong doesn't mean really hard-hitting or far-leaping.  And for Hero terms, it works to just have exert without damage and leaping for build concepts; buy the extra stuff if you want it.

[DasBroot]

That is kinda silly, considering that Throw Distance is factored based on the objects weight versus your maximum lift. So anything that increases your max lift should also be increasing your throw distance.

 

Indeed throw distance IS factored by lift - I didn't limit that.  The mountain was near his maximum lift (245 str to lift vs 250 strength) so... two meters. Unless he's holding the mountain by the very lip (and suspension of disbelief only goes so far even in a superhero game ... at least *try* and get closer to the center of gravity before lifting a mountain, please) .... splat (49d6). 

 

Theoretically he could throw a tank dozens of meters for his 70 str damage (14d6), since the tank has a body/pd higher than 14 - if he hit the broad side of a barn throwing an improvised weapon that distance due to stacking OCV penalties from aerodynamics and range.

 

And it was more than kind of silly - it was *super* silly.  The original, original concept was to be able to lift a mountain but be unable to open a pickle jar.... but the players kind of fell in love with the poor lunk so I made him useful by increasing his non-lift strength to match the DC cap.

[Cantriped]

Ahh, that makes sense, he just needed to be picking up hills instead of mountains. At least he wouldn't have been crushed by the mountain when it fell on top of him, since Crushing Damage is also a factor of the difference between the mass of the object and your maximum lift... and the initial throwing damage would have only been 14d6, since Throwing Damage is based on his attack strength instead of his lift strength (or the mass of the object being thrown).

[DasBroot]

Hmm.  Hadn't realised strength directly reduces crushing damage.  I'll have to look that up in CC.

 

As for the throwing damage - throwing damage would be 14d6 (somehow) but I'd have a hard time saying it wasn't the full 49d6 (minus strength difference, apparently) for dropping it on your head for failing to clear your body when thrown due to size.  

 

It's just a another reason that this deliberately silly build is rules breaking silly and should not be done with any seriousness - lest you end up with a WW2 era Sherman tank being thrown 100 meters to land on a small yapping dog and failing to flat out kill it because someone took strength 10 and 240 points of 'only for lifting strength' and thus threw a tank into something for 2d6....

[Cantriped]

Hmm.  Hadn't realised strength directly reduces crushing damage.  I'll have to look that up in CC.

 

As for the throwing damage - throwing damage would be 14d6 (somehow) but I'd have a hard time saying it wasn't the full 49d6 (minus strength difference, apparently) for dropping it on your head for failing to clear your body when thrown due to size.  

 

It's just a another reason that this deliberately silly build is rules breaking silly and should not be done with any seriousness - lest you end up with a WW2 era Sherman tank being thrown 100 meters to land on a small yapping dog and failing to flat out kill it because someone took strength 10 and 240 points of 'only for lifting strength' and thus threw a tank into something for 2d6....

Even if it failed to kill the dog outright in that silly circumstance, the subsequent Crushing Damage resulting from the dogs extremely low lift and the tank's extremely high mass would certainly kill it almost immediately afterwards.

[GhostDancer]

On this day in history, 1938, Action Comics #1 was published, featuring Superman.  For more history, see our On This Day In History thread in Non-Gaming Discussions.

[GhostDancer]

Re: bulletproof, remember "nothing less than a bursting shell could penetrate his skin" which may have referred to mortar rounds, known as shells.

 

That said, in game terms, what damage does a mortar shell do, circa 1938?  Maybe 3 1/2 KAP or 3 1/2 KEX, depending on the type of shell.

[sinanju]

That said, in game terms, what damage does a mortar shell do, circa 1938?  Maybe 3 1/2 KAP or 3 1/2 KEX, depending on the type of shell.

 

So if it takes a "bursting shell" to penetrate his skin, he's got about 18 rPD (3dK won't do it. 3-1/2K *can* penetrate his skin, but won't do much damage.) That's pretty super.

[Matt the Bruins]

Have mortar rounds changed that much since WWII? They're 4d6 EX in the core book. I guess that would give 14rPD as a minimum, 18-20 as a likelier range. Not gonna be dodging to avoid a thrown revolver, that's for sure!

[Christopher R Taylor]

But can he take a pistol shot to the eyeball without harm like in Superman Returns?  There were a couple good scenes in the film, like him saving the car and posing like the Action Comics cover.

[Hyper-Man]

Remember there is also the common practice of making 'mundane' weapons do half damage vs. supers.

 

HM

[Christopher R Taylor]

Not a bad policy, to enforce comic book genre.  Unlike modern gritty Marvel Cinematic Universe stuff, superheroes just shrug off normal weapon attacks in the comics.