Trying to get foreign naming right

[Badger]

trying to create a villain named: The Devil Crab in Spanish.  Devil is obviously El Diablo, crab if I remember is cangrejo.

 

So, would it be El Diablo Cangrejo, or El Cangrejo Diablo?

 

(or am I overthinking it)

[assault]

trying to create a villain named: The Devil Crab in Spanish.  Devil is obviously El Diablo, crab if I remember is cangrejo.

 

So, would it be El Diablo Cangrejo, or El Cangrejo Diablo?

 

(or am I overthinking it)

 

If you look at the English, Crab is the noun, Devil is an adjective. So I wouldn't start with "el diablo", but with "el cangrejo".

 

Then there's the matter of Spanish grammar being different from English.

 

Google translate gives: "el cangrejo del diablo".

 

Oddly enough "the devil fish" gives "el pez diablo", which just goes to show.

 

While there are obvious limitations to automatic translation, there's clearly something interesting going on here.

[massey]

Is this something you get in Tijuana?

[mrinku]

My guess is that there's a "Devil Fish" in the dictionary database already, but no "Devil Crab", so Google Translate is finding a close match for the former but having to construct the latter. But I only have learning in English, German and Japanese grammar, I'm afraid, so it's mere guesswork.

 

Having said that, both Devil Crab (adjective-noun) and Crab of the Devil (noun-possessive-noun) are valid constructions in English. Germans would probably go with something like Teufelskrabbe.

 

Come on yanks - you all have to take Spanish, right? Lift your game and help out poor Badger!

[Jmonty]

Hello, I am Spanish.

In English the naming convention is Adjective+Noun, and in Spanish is Noun+Adjective. Green Devil would be "Diablo verde". So, if Crab is the Noun it would be "el Cangrejo Diablo". But if you are trying to create some sort of a new concept, like a demon with crab powers, may be "el demonio cangrejo".

[Ninja-Bear]

Sorry Mrinku, Spanish is an elective in school. However if I think to ask my daughter when she gets home & im awake, I’ll ask her. She taking it now.

[massey]

My guess is that there's a "Devil Fish" in the dictionary database already, but no "Devil Crab", so Google Translate is finding a close match for the former but having to construct the latter. But I only have learning in English, German and Japanese grammar, I'm afraid, so it's mere guesswork.

 

Having said that, both Devil Crab (adjective-noun) and Crab of the Devil (noun-possessive-noun) are valid constructions in English. Germans would probably go with something like Teufelskrabbe.

 

Come on yanks - you all have to take Spanish, right? Lift your game and help out poor Badger!

I took French, so I can't help you with that.

 

I do, however, know 5 different phrases for "We surrender."

[Lucius]

I took French, so I can't help you with that.

 

I do, however, know 5 different phrases for "We surrender."

Is one of them Bree-Yark?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

How do you say, palindromedary?

[pinecone]

Yeah, I'd likely have gone with El Congrajo del diablo

[mrinku]

Hello, I am Spanish.

In English the naming convention is Adjective+Noun, and in Spanish is Noun+Adjective. Green Devil would be "Diablo verde". So, if Crab is the Noun it would be "el Cangrejo Diablo". But if you are trying to create some sort of a new concept, like a demon with crab powers, may be "el demonio cangrejo".

 

Cool. My guess is the latter construction may be a bit like "The Demonic Crab" in English, which is a more explicitly descriptive adjectival-noun form.. 

 

But English is ridiculously flexible... except when it's not. I apologise on behalf of my stupid language to everyone having to deal with it.

[Durzan Malakim]

But English is ridiculously flexible... except when it's not. I apologise on behalf of my stupid language to everyone having to deal with it.

 

Flexibility is what makes English both the "Devil language" and "the language of the Devil."

[Ninja-Bear]

I asked my daughter (whose only taking Spanish) and said that El Diablo Cangrejo would technically correct because in Spanish you can switch order of the adjective.

[Badger]

My guess is that there's a "Devil Fish" in the dictionary database already, but no "Devil Crab", so Google Translate is finding a close match for the former but having to construct the latter. But I only have learning in English, German and Japanese grammar, I'm afraid, so it's mere guesswork.

 

Having said that, both Devil Crab (adjective-noun) and Crab of the Devil (noun-possessive-noun) are valid constructions in English. Germans would probably go with something like Teufelskrabbe.

 

Come on yanks - you all have to take Spanish, right? Lift your game and help out poor Badger!

 

Don't know how much that would help, I actually did take Spanish in high school, you can see how much I learned (well actually I did learn a lot of individual words, but putting together phrases and sentences I never could grasp that well. which was why I eventually quit Spanish)

[Badger]

I took French, so I can't help you with that.

 

I do, however, know 5 different phrases for "We surrender."

 

I take it you only took French one year, then.   

[Jmonty]

I asked my daughter (whose only taking Spanish) and said that El Diablo Cangrejo would technically correct because in Spanish you can switch order of the adjective.

 

You can, but if you do this the product gets an odd poetic flavour.

 

Normal Spanish: "La pradera verde", "The Green prairie".

Poetic Spanish: "La verde pradera", "The Green prairie".

 

I think the name of a superhero or villain should be normal and not oddly poetic.

If I can help you with Spanish names, feel free to ask.

[Lucius]

You can, but if you do this the product gets an odd poetic flavour.

 

Normal Spanish: "La pradera verde", "The Green prairie".

Poetic Spanish: "La verde pradera", "The Green prairie".

 

I think the name of a superhero or villain should be normal and not oddly poetic.

If I can help you with Spanish names, feel free to ask.

You can do the same in English.

 

Saying "The prairie green" sounds oddly poetic in English.

 

The thing is, I can tell it's not supposed to be a green that happens to be colored prairie. But if you want me to think of a diabolical crab you could say "the Devil Crab" but if you say "the Crab Devil" I won't think of a diabolical crab, I'll think you're talking about a crabby devil.

 

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says Lucius would probably eat some deviled crab but would not want to encounter a crabbed devil

[Lucius]

Flexibility is what makes English both the "Devil language" and "the language of the Devil."

Tell me about it. Every time I see this thread I think for a moment it's about someone wanting to negotiate the rights to use Hero System's name in some foreign country....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary looks around nervously for any crab cannons

[Jmonty]

May be the problem is "diablo" and "cangrejo" are both more nouns than adjectives...

 

So, I think "el cangrejo diablo" is a diabolical crab, and "el diablo cangrejo" is a demon with crab-like powers.

In Spain we use "diablo" and "demonio" (devil and demon) alike. Don't know if in Mexico they use it as the same.

 

 

The thing is, I can tell it's not supposed to be a green that happens to be colored prairie. But if you want me to think of a diabolical crab you could say "the Devil Crab" but if you say "the Crab Devil" I won't think of a diabolical crab, I'll think you're talking about a crabby devil.



Lucius Alexander

[Cassandra]

I use Soryu for a Japanese World War Two Naval Intelligence Officer Martial Artist.

 

It means Green Dragon.

[mrinku]

That... doesn't sound right to me Cassandra. Green is normally Midori or Ao, or the on-yomi reading of the kanji (which would certainly be appropriate), but that's Ryoku or Roku for Midori (緑) or Sei or Shou for Ao (青).

 

The Chinese would be something like Lung Lu and traditional Chinese uses the same character as Midori. I'd tend to go with Ryokuryuu for his Japanese version.

 

Edit: I think I found what Cassandra is using. Souryuu (蒼竜) (そうりゅう) (Soh-Ryu) is the mythical Blue Dragon of the Eastern Heavens. 

 

Confusion arises about blue/green in Japanese because the same sound (Ao) can be used to mean both, but it's largely just a homonym like Weather/Whether in English. The kanji for the two are different. (There is also an aspect of the two traditionally being considered shades of the same colour... but no Japanese is going to mix up sky blue with grass green!).

[Cassandra]

 

That... doesn't sound right to me Cassandra. Green is normally Midori or Ao, or the on-yomi reading of the kanji (which would certainly be appropriate), but that's Ryoku or Roku for Midori (緑) or Sei or Shou for Ao (青).

 

The Chinese would be something like Lung Lu and traditional Chinese uses the same character as Midori. I'd tend to go with Ryokuryuu for his Japanese version.

 

Edit: I think I found what Cassandra is using. Souryuu (蒼竜) (そうりゅう) (Soh-Ryu) is the mythical Blue Dragon of the Eastern Heavens. 

 

Confusion arises about blue/green in Japanese because the same sound (Ao) can be used to mean both, but it's largely just a homonym like Weather/Whether in English. The kanji for the two are different. (There is also an aspect of the two traditionally being considered shades of the same colour... but no Japanese is going to mix up sky blue with grass green!).

 

 

Technically is mean's Blue/Green Dragon, but I used Green Dragon in honor of the long time Champions character.

[mrinku]

Technically is mean's Blue/Green Dragon, but I used Green Dragon in honor of the long time Champions character.

 

But "Soryu" is a specific mythological reference and is definitely referring to a blue dragon of the sky. You'd be better using Aoryuu or Midoriryuu. If the green in question is emerald, definitely go with Midoriryu. But, that's just my friendly advice.

[Cassandra]

But "Soryu" is a specific mythological reference and is definitely referring to a blue dragon of the sky. You'd be better using Aoryuu or Midoriryuu. If the green in question is emerald, definitely go with Midoriryu. But, that's just my friendly advice.

 

Maybe but the Japanese didn't have an Aircraft Carrier with the names Aoryuu or Midoriryuu.

[Ninja-Bear]

I would though suggest perhaps if able to, make sure devil crab isn’t a idiom or euphemism for a mature meaning?

[mrinku]

Maybe but the Japanese didn't have an Aircraft Carrier with the names Aoryuu or Midoriryuu.

 

Yeah, fair enough. Still feels a little like describing Byzantine princes being "born to the fuschia" instead of "born to the purple" to me (purple being a fairly close equivalent in western colour traditions to the lumping of blue and green shades together in many Asian ones), but it's cool. Go with a sea green over a grass green, though, or it really would be like draping Caesar in pink.