Exploring the Possibilities of HERO System

[Demiurgos]

Apply a small Limitation to cut the area down to size.

 

 

So would something like Limited Radius (x" Radius [whatever the desired radius is, rather than the one the points dictate]; -1/4) work for the 5th edition writeup? Using similar logic to the Limited Range Limitation, an Area Of Effect power with less than the normal radius its points would give it.

 

 

I don't think the -1 Limitation you're using now, "Only to remove memories" is a valid Limitation. HOWEVER, change it to "only removes memories pertaining to the character" and I think it's valid at that value.

 

Ah. That's fine, then. I'd gotten the number from USPD:

 

Memory Theft: As Amnesia Induction, but the

character doesn’t just remove memories, he steals

them from the target to keep in his own mind.

Add to Amnesia Induction Telepathy 15d6 (75

Active Points); Linked (-½), Must Achieve EGO

+20 Result (-½), Only To Steal Memories (-1) (total

cost: 25 points). 135 + 75 = 210 Active Points; total

cost 54 + 25 = 79 points.

 

So Only To Remove Memories Pertaining To Himself (-1).

 

You do realize that while using that particular power, you can NOT use ANY OTHER of the slots in the Multipower, right?

 

 

Ah, right. The reserve has to account for everything. I didn't set the reserve amount in advance because I didn't know how much the powers were going to cost. So if he wants to use Only You Can See Me and Privacy From Prying Ears, then 200 points need to be available in the reserve for that. If he wanted to erase the memory of their meeting, then it'd need another 100. Though I think in that case he can just make himself invisible and inaudible to everyone except the one person, then lead them to a more private place where it's just the two of them, so he can turn those off, then erase the memory of their meeting, and turn them back on so he leaves unseen as he came.

 

Nothing in that particular Multipower is for direct combat, but I like to specifically delineate how a particular character uses his or her power, so they can be used in character rather than it being all about most effective combat applications.

[Vanguard]

Demiguros a point about mind link and Hero system in general. Sometimes a Power doesn’t seem like a good fit because of the name. However if you look at the mechanical aspects of the Power it may work better than another power. Also Powers can change “classes” if you will. Like the mind link example I mentioned earlier, it’s bought iirc as an iif - helmet radio. So it’s not a mental power anymore but radio now.

 

Btw I have no horse in this race and understand if you like a build x instead of y. I know for myself It took awhile for the bit of Hero wisdom to sink in.

 

Ran out of "likes" so I wanted to thank Ninja here for pointing that out. I was wondering if anyone was going to and was just about ready to do so myself when I saw his reply.

/salute

 

 

You are wrong, there is a problem with the name, it has been demonstrated for years that there is a problem, hence it was changed to Blast in 6th edition.

 

I know what you are saying, most of us here are adept at divorcing power name and game effect, not true of most people that we want to play the game.

 

Exactly.  Some people (IE: my wife) can be very literal minded and have a hard time understanding that just because the power says "energy blast" doesn't necessarily mean it has to be and ENERGY blast.  Divorcing (possible) sfx from the names of the powers help those types of people out.

 

Which is a good thing.

 

One other thing to note, which I didn't see mentioned, is that some GMs also don't allow powers to divulge game mechanics.  So, for example, my GM wouldn't allow a Detect that would let you know a target's body stat.  I also, vaguely, seem to recall that that was also a RAW thing to.  But since I can't, precisely, remember where I saw it, I'm going to chalk it up to just a houserule that we've been using for years. 

[Lucius]

Ah. That's fine, then. I'd gotten the number from USPD:

 

Memory Theft: As Amnesia Induction, but the

character doesn’t just remove memories, he steals

them from the target to keep in his own mind.

Add to Amnesia Induction Telepathy 15d6 (75

Active Points); Linked (-½), Must Achieve EGO

+20 Result (-½), Only To Steal Memories (-1) (total

cost: 25 points). 135 + 75 = 210 Active Points; total

cost 54 + 25 = 79 points.

 

So Only To Remove Memories Pertaining To Himself (-1).

And the Limitation is okay there. It is applied to TELEPATHY - which ordinarily has a number of things it might do. You were trying to apply that Limiation to TRANSFORM. Now, by default, Transform changes a target from what it is, to something else that it wasn't. The "something else" needs to be defined when Transform is bought. To expand that takes an Advantage. Thus, you can buy a power to Transform someone into a toad; you can't then use that power to turn someone into a tote or a tome or a tor, unless you have the appropriate advantage. It's not a Limitation that you can only turn them into toads, that's how the power works by default.

 

I figure "Transform person into person minus some memories" works as a default Transform, and restricting it to "minus memories of X specifically" could be a Limitation.

 

 

 

Ah, right. The reserve has to account for everything. I didn't set the reserve amount in advance because I didn't know how much the powers were going to cost. So if he wants to use Only You Can See Me and Privacy From Prying Ears, then 200 points need to be available in the reserve for that. If he wanted to erase the memory of their meeting, then it'd need another 100. Though I think in that case he can just make himself invisible and inaudible to everyone except the one person, then lead them to a more private place where it's just the two of them, so he can turn those off, then erase the memory of their meeting, and turn them back on so he leaves unseen as he came.

 

Nothing in that particular Multipower is for direct combat, but I like to specifically delineate how a particular character uses his or her power, so they can be used in character rather than it being all about most effective combat applications.

Why, exactly, are you using a Multipower in the first place?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Transform into Palindromedary

[Demiurgos]

And the Limitation is okay there. It is applied to TELEPATHY - which ordinarily has a number of things it might do. You were trying to apply that Limiation to TRANSFORM. Now, by default, Transform changes a target from what it is, to something else that it wasn't. The "something else" needs to be defined when Transform is bought. To expand that takes an Advantage. Thus, you can buy a power to Transform someone into a toad; you can't then use that power to turn someone into a tote or a tome or a tor, unless you have the appropriate advantage. It's not a Limitation that you can only turn them into toads, that's how the power works by default.

 

I figure "Transform person into person minus some memories" works as a default Transform, and restricting it to "minus memories of X specifically" could be a Limitation.

 

 

Actually, no, it was an option listed for Psionic Surgery. From the UNTIL Superpowers Database Revised, p. 158:

 

PSIONIC SURGERY

Effect: Major Transform 4d6 (change memories and Psychological Limitations), BOECV

 

Copyright of course prevents me from posting the full thing, but that's the base effect. You're free to fact check it, what I posted was the fifth option for Psionic Surgery on page 158 in the Mental and Psionic Powers category. Transform was also the base effect in the other system, so HERO doesn't do anything differently in that regard. Memory erasure isn't a unique power, so I looked for a model for how to word the effect in HERO System language, found one, followed it, and made it for memories only rather than Psychological Limitations, since that's all the character's supposed to be able to do with it.

 

Actually, I see I quoted the wrong option. It says for the Memory Theft option "Add to Amnesia Induction Telepathy 15d6," so that must be where the assumption the Limitation is for telepathy comes from. The telepathy is a power that's Linked to the previous option to put the memories in his own head rather than just removing them. Look above to the fourth option:

 

4) Amnesia Induction: The character cannot change a target’s personality and basic behavior patterns (Psychological Limitations), nor can he implant memories — all he can do is take existing memories away. Add Only To Remove Memories (-1). Total cost: 54 points.

 

To only remove memories, add Only To Remove Memories Limitation (-1) to Psionic Surgery.

 

The point cost doesn't matter to me aside from wanting it to be accurate for whatever it should be, but the point is that I didn't pull it out of thin air, and I didn't make a mistake. I went by what the book said.

 

 

Why, exactly, are you using a Multipower in the first place?

 

Because it was the HERO System equivalent of the power framework it was in the system it was built in. I translated everything that was translatable to what seemed to be the HERO System equivalent, and posted questions here for things that didn't seem to have one. Find the similarities to what you already know, do what you can yourself, then ask questions here for things that are unclear because it isn't covered by what you already know.

 

By process of elimination, it isn't a Variable Power Pool, and the 5E rulebook said that Elemental Controls should have a power for Attack, Defense, Movement, and perhaps a Sensory power. Like a fire controller would have a blast, a shield that melts incoming projectiles, flight, and can see heat. Or, to take Firewing, who seems to be the fire guy in the Champions Universe, he has an Elemental Control with Fire Shield (Defense), Fiery Flight (Movement), Self-Immolation (Attack + Defense), and Wall Of Fire (Defense + Attack). The given example of an ice controller had Ice Darts (Attack), Ice Wall (Defense), Ice Armor (Defense), Ice Slides (Movement), Ice Bonds (Attack). A Sensory was "perhaps," but everything in the example followed that format. It said ECs should consist of a broad range of powers with some kind of theme, not a lot of powers with one function. (Which is why EC powers can be used simultaneously, so you can do things like fly [Movement] and shoot [Attack] at the same time. Two different functions at once.) Since ECs provide a price discount, people would just load them up with whatever powers they've deemed to be most effective in combat, which is why it's flagged as something GMs should look closely at and has guidelines, which is perfectly understandable. And that suite of powers for that character only have one function. Additionally, the published characters I looked at had those types of powers in Multipowers. So that's what I used.

 

[Ninja-Bear]

Despite what I said earlier, I've been taking a look at it. There's what I initially say at the time, but I take a closer look at everything afterwards, and something different may be realized at that point.

 

It says, "Once established, Mind Link does not require Line Of Sight, and is only broken when either party wants to 'hang up' " (5ER 204). Is there any way to make it so that only the character who initiates it can "hang up"? Since he's enabling them to see him, they don't have control to be able to not see him anymore, he has to withdraw it so that they're no longer able to perceive him.

I’m sure there is, if anything you can make it a custom limitation.

[Lucius]

I figure "Transform person into person minus some memories" works as a default Transform

 

 

Actually, no, it was an option listed for Psionic Surgery. From the UNTIL Superpowers Database Revised, p. 158:

Hm, so maybe I figured wrong. Or at least, figured different from the official figuring.

 

 

Because it was the HERO System equivalent of the power framework it was in the system it was built in. I translated everything that was translatable to what seemed to be the HERO System equivalent, and posted questions here for things that didn't seem to have one. Find the similarities to what you already know, do what you can yourself, then ask questions here for things that are unclear because it isn't covered by what you already know.

What I'm saying is, if you don't want the use of one power to block the use of another, Multipower doesn't fit your character conception. If the total points don't matter and you're just building to concept and the concept doesn't include occasionally having to make a hard choice among incompatible power options, why not just put all these powers together in a List?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary buys a Base with an indoor heated Variable Power Pool

[Doc Democracy]

I dont think it would be a limitation. Once you have a power that is imposed rather than accepted, I think you are looking to buy it "usable as an attack". Then you take away any pretence of voluntary conversation.

 

Doc

[Demiurgos]

 What I'm saying is, if you don't want the use of one power to block the use of another, Multipower doesn't fit your character conception. If the total points don't matter and you're just building to concept and the concept doesn't include occasionally having to make a hard choice among incompatible power options, why not just put all these powers together in a List?

 

Barwickian said earlier that I was grokking HERO System quickly, but despite that, I'm still a novice, so I don't know the best way to do something in HERO System, hence my coming here. I'm familiar with how a points-buy, effects-based system works, but not fully familiar with HERO in particular, so I have to get acquainted with the particular building blocks HERO uses to create powers.

 

That suite of powers built in the other system is, in HERO System terms, a Multipower with three slots. The Transform Memory Removal, Invisibility to Sight, Hearing, and Smell/Taste Groups, and Invisibility to Sight, Hearing, and Smell/Taste Groups Usable By Others. Now, for the build I'm trying to translate to HERO System, it has three powers. The Invisibility to Sight, Hearing, and Smell/Taste Groups is a Flexible slot that can be used selectively. He can make himself a ) only Invisible to Sight Groups, b ) Invisible to Sight and Hearing Groups, or c) Invisible to all three at will. So if he's using the power with another Flexible slot, then he can choose say, making himself only Invisible to Sight and Hearing Groups, which costs x amount of points instead of the full cost, which allows him to use another power at x level, which is the Psionic Surgery as aforementioned. He needs information from someone, appears only to them, then after getting what he needs, he removes the memory of it, so that absolutely no one in that place can recall ever seeing him that day. It's built to be able to use both simultaneously to a degree less than full power, and is sufficient for what it's used for.

 

In HERO, it needs to be built differently, since you can't selectively make yourself Invisible (explicitly stated), you're either Invisible to all the Groups you're Invisible to, or you're not. You can't selectively make yourself Invisible to some people or not others, you're either Invisible to everyone (excepting of course, those with Unusual Senses), or you're not. Which means it has to be done differently. And some people here have provided suggestions.

 

I didn't know what the power frameworks were for HERO, so I looked in the rulebook, which listed three: Elemental Control, Multipower, and Variable Power Pool. Multipower and Variable Power Pool I recognized after reading about them, as they were the HERO equivalent of certain power frameworks I was already accustomed to. Elemental Control didn't seem to have any equivalent, and was something it had that the other system different. But it didn't seem to be appropriate, as previously outlined, so I went with Multipower, which I already knew to be the equivalent of the framework it was already in. But as I'm not a HERO System veteran, those were the only options I saw that were available. If I'm new to a system, I look at the rule book, then I look at the published builds to see how characters are created (which is a different thing from expecting whatever type of powers published characters have to be usable for a PC).

 

"List" is capitalized, so presumably it's referring to something in particular, but I don't see it in the index, so I'll have to remind you that I'm still new to HERO System (I've simply taken a systematic approach so that it isn't as difficult as it's purported to be, in addition to having books directly in front of me to refer to. The literature on the subject shows that people actually have more problems making a decision the more choices there are to choose from, so that might be what makes HERO "daunting" to newcomers, as I've read), so I don't know what "List" is referring to, and will have to ask you to explain what that is in HERO. (If it's from 6e, I don't have the rulebook.)

[Demiurgos]

I dont think it would be a limitation. Once you have a power that is imposed rather than accepted, I think you are looking to buy it "usable as an attack". Then you take away any pretence of voluntary conversation.

 

Doc

 

If that be the case, then it seems that Lucius's suggestion of buying a Naked Advantage of Personal Immunity, applying Usable By Others, and picking people who could see through the invisibility would be the simplest, most straightforward way of achieving the effect. In the 6th ed. template in HERO Designer, it'd look like this:

 

Only You Can See Me: Personal Immunity (+1/4) for up to 40 Active Points of Imperceivable, Usable Nearby (+1 1/4), Grantor can take back power at any time (22 Active Points)

 

It has an Adder Grantor can take back power at any time (+1/2) that would reflect enabling someone to see him, then rendering himself invisible again. The logic is, if someone is cloaked, you have no choice whether you can see them or not. You either can (perhaps through some Unusual Sense), or you can't. If they uncloak themselves to you, you can't not see them again short of closing your eyes. Just like if you're facing a direction, you can't not see anything in your line of sight unless you close your eyes or look away. But if someone is cloaked standing in front of you, you can't see them, then they reveal themselves to you and you see them, then they re-cloak themselves again and you don't see them again, but there was no action taken on your part that had anything to do with any of it.

 

It seems that in 5th ed., with no Usable Nearby option, it would be accomplished like this:

 

Only You Can See Me:  Personal Immunity (+1/4) for up to 40 Active Points of Imperceivable, Usable As Attack (+1) (20 Active Points).

 

To make sure I have all the details clear, if he wanted to make others Imperceivable as well as himself, if he made Imperceivable Usable On Others and also gave them the Only You Can See Me Personal Immunity naked Advantage, that would mean that all of them would be Invisible to everyone except each other? Do I have that right?

 

Say, the character in question is a celebrity often hounded by paparazzi, and just wants a quiet night out with his date. They're taking a walk, and he makes them invisible so no paparazzi can see them, but they can see/hear each other just fine. The above would accomplish this?

(The example was provided to illustrate a typical use. Players might want it to, for instance, make their entire team invisible to give them the bonus for surprise attacking opponents who can't see them, which isn't what the character uses the power for, regardless how much of a combat edge it might give. And illustrates why a PC shouldn't have it.)

 

Looking at Mind Link, you have to define the number of people you can appear to at once, and it seems Usable As Attack isn't an option. I'll just choose four as a number. Using the suggestions of Normal Range and Limited Range:

 

Mind Link , Human class of minds, One Specific Mind, Number of Minds (x4) (15 Active Points); Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4)

 

This is actually cheaper, though price isn't a concern. Limited Range can't be greater than half the power's normal range (5ER 302), so you can't buy it enough times to bring it to 2-3 meters. It says Mind Link is usually limited to a single planet, but this certainly isn't supposed to be planetary. The Normal Range Limitation puts it at 5" x Active Points, which would make it (5 x 15 =) 75". With Limited Range, it can't be any smaller than 37.5", which is still too great a range, requiring more work. So PI + UOO is simpler.

[Doc Democracy]

I think you misunderstood the rules there. You quoted "Limited range can't be greater than half the power's normal range". You have taken that to mean you cannot reduce the range by more than half the power's normal range.

 

What it means is, if the normal range is 75", the limited range can be no greater than 37.5". You can have any range that you want under 37.5".

 

The reason there is to stop players shaving the range imperceptibly and getting essentially free discounts.

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

I am going to make a suggestion here that has become a bit of a joke on the boards because it gets used in so many ways. However, the effect you are looking for stretches the system in so many different directions, it might be a cleaner build.

 

I am going to suggest extra-dimensional movement. I am going to suggest that the power moves the hero, and any other he chooses slightly in some way such that they become invisible to the normal senses of others. They are physically present and would be affected by attacks, if those happened to be in the right location.

 

You would need an appropriate sense to be able to see others, and to grant to others you bring with you.

 

Haven't got my books but will try to post actual numbers later.

 

This does come close to a big HERO no-no. You should not use a mechanic like XDM to replicate the effect of an existing mechanic, like Invisibility.

 

I think your effect is far enough from the core invisibility mechanic that we are justified in using it here.

 

Doc

[Ninja-Bear]

Btw Demiurgos you can name the other system. It may help people here as many play or at least familiar with other systems. Also people are also friendly about other systems even if it isn’t their cup of tea so to speak.

[Lucius]

"List" is capitalized, so presumably it's referring to something in particular, but I don't see it in the index, so I'll have to remind you that I'm still new to HERO System (I've simply taken a systematic approach so that it isn't as difficult as it's purported to be, in addition to having books directly in front of me to refer to. The literature on the subject shows that people actually have more problems making a decision the more choices there are to choose from, so that might be what makes HERO "daunting" to newcomers, as I've read), so I don't know what "List" is referring to, and will have to ask you to explain what that is in HERO. (If it's from 6e, I don't have the rulebook.)

A List is, basically, a list. If you're using Hero Designer, you will see it as an option on every tab. Without Hero Designer, you can just write something on the character sheet like "Psionic Steatlth Powest" and then under that put the Powers that fit that description. If you like you can give them Unified Power or other Common Modifiers, which can even on Hero Designer be "built in" to the List itself.

 

I'm starting to think, though, that what this character really has is a massive Area Effect Mental Illusions and a whole bunch of creative ways of using it. Well, and the Mental Transform, to erase memories.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Taglines:

1. Did the palindromedary eat my tagline?

2. Have you seen my palindromedary?

3. Insert palindromedary tagline here

4. Palindromedary Enterprises - more than just palindromedaries!

5. Sometimes the palindromedary uses the tagline to illustrate, reflect on, or comment on the main post

6. Even if it's not mentioned in the tagline, everyone knows it's there.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: 'List'

 

This is not part of the rules per se. It's just a container feature of Hero Designer that is borrowed from true Frameworks (Multipower, Variable Power Pool and Elemental Control [pre 6e]) that allows common Modifiers (Advantages & Limitations) to be applied to a group of Abilities automatically. IE create the List first, assign the common Modifiers to the List and then create Abilities inside the List without needing to repeatedly assign the same Modifiers.

 

Abilities is my term meaning any appropriate category - Characteristic, Skill, Talent etc.

 

HM

[Ninja-Bear]

I find the lists handy. As Lucius points out you can put a theme of powers together or skill lists too. Also in Hero Designer you can copy and paste entire lists.

[Demiurgos]

I think you misunderstood the rules there. You quoted "Limited range can't be greater than half the power's normal range". You have taken that to mean you cannot reduce the range by more than half the power's normal range.

 

What it means is, if the normal range is 75", the limited range can be no greater than 37.5". You can have any range that you want under 37.5".

 

The reason there is to stop players shaving the range imperceptibly and getting essentially free discounts.

 

Doc

 

Limited Range

Value: -¼

   This Limitation represents a Ranged power with less than normal Range. The GM sets the power’s exact Range based upon its special effects, but in any event the range cannot be greater than half of the power’s normal Range.

 

Ah, it seems that you're correct, and that I actually misread it.

 

 

I am going to make a suggestion here that has become a bit of a joke on the boards because it gets used in so many ways. However, the effect you are looking for stretches the system in so many different directions, it might be a cleaner build.

 

I am going to suggest extra-dimensional movement. I am going to suggest that the power moves the hero, and any other he chooses slightly in some way such that they become invisible to the normal senses of others. They are physically present and would be affected by attacks, if those happened to be in the right location.

 

You would need an appropriate sense to be able to see others, and to grant to others you bring with you.

 

Haven't got my books but will try to post actual numbers later.

 

This does come close to a big HERO no-no. You should not use a mechanic like XDM to replicate the effect of an existing mechanic, like Invisibility.

 

I think your effect is far enough from the core invisibility mechanic that we are justified in using it here.

 

 

It shouldn't have to come to that, should it? I mean, it isn't even a "munchkin" power build, or even a power intended for use in an offensive manner at all. It's just how the character remains a behind-the-scenes mastermind type, by ensuring there's nothing that points to his secret activities or exposes his identity. Other than the weapon, I haven't even gone into anything intended for combat use at all, as I wanted to start small.

[Demiurgos]

Btw Demiurgos you can name the other system. It may help people here as many play or at least familiar with other systems. Also people are also friendly about other systems even if it isn’t their cup of tea so to speak.

 

I make it a point not to talk about competitors on the official board of a particular system, where people who actually work for the company post, not just people who play the system. It would be one thing if this was a general forum like RPG.net, but to me that would be disrespectful when I'm a guest in someone else's home, so to speak. Just like I wouldn't go to a Subway to eat, and talk about Togo's while I'm there, or go to a Burger King and talk about McDonald's. And to say, "Well, x system does this this way" while naming the system could be taken as an indictment, again, on a place where people who work for the company post. It just doesn't seem right to me.

[Demiurgos]

A List is, basically, a list. If you're using Hero Designer, you will see it as an option on every tab. Without Hero Designer, you can just write something on the character sheet like "Psionic Steatlth Powest" and then under that put the Powers that fit that description. If you like you can give them Unified Power or other Common Modifiers, which can even on Hero Designer be "built in" to the List itself.

 

 

Ah, it's a HERO Designer feature. So I was looking in the wrong place, and wouldn't have seen it in an official source. Okay, I see it. Edit List Sorting Power Frameworks

 

 

I'm starting to think, though, that what this character really has is a massive Area Effect Mental Illusions and a whole bunch of creative ways of using it. Well, and the Mental Transform, to erase memories.

 

 

Hmm... looking at Mental Illusions again, "Because Mental Illusions work on a character's mind, they affect all of his Senses, even Senses he has which the character creating the Mental Illusions doesn't know about." So it seems that using Mental Illusions to make oneself Invisible would inherently "affect all of his Senses" (5ER 201), so he wouldn't be visible to him via any Sense that he may happen to have. Providing, of course, that he rolls high enough on the Effect Roll for a Major Change.

 

As as he does have an AoE Mental Illusions with Illusions Do Appropriate Damage (+1/2) that he uses offensively, it fits, because then it'd be a case of using Illusions for various purposes. That was actually another question I had, to see how detailed it was possible to get with HERO, since more detail is always good for me, as the greater it can be personalized, the more unique it will be. This is a specific Illusion. First the victim hears a rumble, and the ground perceptibly vibrates. As the illusion progresses, perceptible vibration intensifies to violent shaking, and what was once solid ground undulates in waves beneath them, disorienting their sense of balance. The earth sinks in some places and cracks in others, and they try to avoid falling debris, collapsing buildings (if there are any nearby), etc. In its final stage, the earth completely falls away under them, a hole opening in the ground in a 9-10 meter radius around the character, who stands in the center of it on a pillar of earth, which is the only place the ground hasn't fallen away. Everyone not standing on the center pillar where he is falls into the chasm, and they appear to fall 76-77 meters and hit jagged rocks at the bottom, at which time they black out, taking psychosomatic damage. So it would have Illusions Do Appropriate Damage (+1/2) and I was looking into Unusual Effects. There's an earthquake build in USPD, and the ground opening up would be a Tunneling Attack Linked to damage. In the other system I built it so that the the effects of the illusion while the victim was in it were simulated, with the rolls being for whether or not they were able to keep their balance or move out of the way of falling debris, etc., but they would have to make the Breakout Roll in order to get out of it. It seems you can inherently do all that with HERO, but I was wondering how to do the blackout part on hitting the rocks (which marks the end of the illusion), then they regain consciousness however long later.

 

But if it could all be done with an AoE Mental Illusions, then that would simplify matters, since as it's an ability he already has, it could simply be a matter of him using it for different things, which would make it nice and neat, since there wouldn't be a need to use another effect.

[Spence]

One other thing to note, which I didn't see mentioned, is that some GMs also don't allow powers to divulge game mechanics.  So, for example, my GM wouldn't allow a Detect that would let you know a target's body stat.  I also, vaguely, seem to recall that that was also a RAW thing to.  But since I can't, precisely, remember where I saw it, I'm going to chalk it up to just a houserule that we've been using for years. 

 

I don't recall if it was a rule or just an accepted convention.  I know that for myself I never reveal information in "rule form" but instead describe it "world view" terms.   Back when I played a lot, all of us did the same and even at con games I used to come across it.  Perhaps it was from a discussion on the old Red October or maybe in the old Adventure mag.

[Doc Democracy]

It shouldn't have to come to that, should it? I mean, it isn't even a "munchkin" power build, or even a power intended for use in an offensive manner at all. It's just how the character remains a behind-the-scenes mastermind type, by ensuring there's nothing that points to his secret activities or exposes his identity. Other than the weapon, I haven't even gone into anything intended for combat use at all, as I wanted to start small.

 

I have never met a player who, if they can make themselves and their buddies silent and invisible while able to see and hear their opponents would not exploit that to the maximum....

[Demiurgos]

I have never met a player who, if they can make themselves and their buddies silent and invisible while able to see and hear their opponents would not exploit that to the maximum....

 

I specifically addressed that in post #84. A PC wouldn't have the power to begin with, for that very reason. (I said in post #34, there were three issues in points-buy effects-based systems: 1) Can it be built?; 2) Will it be in a game?; 3) Will it be for a PC or NPC?) Players often can't be trusted, otherwise there wouldn't be any need for GM approval, or to flag certain powers in the book if they were able to make a reasonable character to interact in a team, to work with a team rather than outshining everyone else, by themselves. (Or didn't have to be reigned in because despite being alleged "heroes," they go around killing people, etc., which is a problem GMs have posted on roleplaying boards that they have. The fact is that if superpowers existed in reality, villains would outnumber heroes. In RPGs, people are doing what they'd actually do with powers, and a look at what people say they'd do in "What would you do if you had superpowers" threads is enough to make one thankful they exist solely in the realm of fiction. With all the stories of how people abuse the power to the degree that they have and is possible to attain in the real world as it is, adding superpowers to the mix would make it a nightmare.)

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I create characters I start with the personality first, and stuff I've seen regarded as "fluff" and "useless." I make psychological profiles to specifically outline just who this character is, what their character is, and what is and isn't "in character" for them to act like (It is roleplaying, after all; you're supposed to be playing a character, not a collection of powers), to be updated as the character is being roleplayed, to reflect how their experiences shape them. I want to have a clear idea how that particular character will act in a given situation. (Comic book characters have existed for decades, with completely different writers, so they may not have consistent personalities, but are subject to fluctuation depending on who's writing them, unlike real life people. Since this is a complaint on comic book boards, one can establish a stable personality for an RPG character—people who create comic characters can't list a guide as to how a character is to be portrayed since they lose any say once they're no longer writing them, whereas such a guide is necessary for RPG characters since they don't have over a half-century of media portrayal [books, television shows, cartoons, movies] through which everyone knows who they are and what they're about.) With the personality established, powers may then suggest themselves (powers just happening to match a person's personality isn't infrequent—e.g., the hotheaded guy just so happened to get fire powers), and their personality will dictate how they use their powers, along with whatever Psychological Limitations they have (psych lims should make a character three-dimensional, not simply be a way of getting points back). From what I see, most start with powers first, then just slap together "fluff" afterwards (from what I've seen, anything without combat applications seems to be considered "useless." Which is a pet peeve of mine, how in roleplaying, anything outside of direct combat is frequently devalued or regarded as of lesser importance than how well your collection of effects can kick the butt of any other collection of effects it may come across).

 

As aforementioned, this character doesn't use it offensively, he uses it to keep his actions and identity hidden. That's what the character uses the powers for, not what a player would do if they had those powers (which they shouldn't anyway. That falls into Category 3). That's why I went to the trouble of posting in-character uses of the power to break the default power gaming mindset. (For example, Superman could one day just say he's gotten tired of humans' inability to make much progress in the thousands of years of its existence, with their inhumanity to each other, abuse of the planet, etc., and just take matters into his own hands and rule, and there wouldn't be much resistance the people of Earth could put up against him, but that isn't what he'd do with his powers. Even though a player with the powers Superman has would likely try to take over the world since they wouldn't see anything anyone could do to stop them, and would fully exploit his speed in addition to the rest of his powers so that any opposition is taken care of before they've even realized anything happened [including disposing of the world's supply of that pesky Kryptonite faster than anyone can perceive. Kryptonite should mean nothing if you can't make use of it before Superman's stopped you from being able to in one of the many ways available to him before you know what's going on if we're just talking about powers.]—unlike the comics, where characters don't use their powers the way players would at the gaming table [or on "battleboards"/versus forums] because the writer's trying to tell a story. "Might makes right"; "Because I can.")

 

And if, with the ability to create "anything you can think of," absolutely nothing comes to mind outside of what could be used in combat, that would seem to suggest a lack of imagination.

[Ninja-Bear]

I make it a point not to talk about competitors on the official board of a particular system, where people who actually work for the company post, not just people who play the system. It would be one thing if this was a general forum like RPG.net, but to me that would be disrespectful when I'm a guest in someone else's home, so to speak. Just like I wouldn't go to a Subway to eat, and talk about Togo's while I'm there, or go to a Burger King and talk about McDonald's. And to say, "Well, x system does this this way" while naming the system could be taken as an indictment, again, on a place where people who work for the company post. It just doesn't seem right to me.

I can respect that.

[Mister E]

Concerning the gun that scans targets & uses different power levels of attack:

 

[6E1 p.130]

 

Powers that costs zero END (for any reason) are always at full power & cannot have their active points reduced as per usual.

 

This goes for powers w/ charges which inherently cost zero END.

 

So if you want a gun w/ variable power level settings & that gun has charges (bullets) then it is going to be more complicated.

 

You are going to have to break it down into smaller discrete powers representing each power level.

 

E.g.

 

"Low Threat": 1d6 RKA

"Medium Threat": +1d6 RKA

"High Threat": +1d6 RKA

"Maximum Threat": +1d6 RKA

... ect.

[Mister E]

The Powers book presents a nice psionic Invisibility power built w/ Only Works Against Sentient Persons Character Is Aware Of (-1/2).

 

As this is more limiting than Only Works Against Sentient Persons, I would cost the latter at (-1/4).

 

YMMV

 

Edit: APGII introduces Psionic as a new Limitation for non-mental powers. It basically works the same as the above two Limited Power limitations.

[Mister E]

Having multiple powers for a single Focus looks like multiple Foci on the character sheet.

 

I guess the trade off for being disarmed of more than one power from a single grab comes from being able to wield more than one power in the first place.

 

Idk