Looking for some advice on a couple of combat actions

[phoenix240]

These situations have come in a battle and I'm not quite sure how to rule on them. I am using 5th Edition revised

 

One player wants to block the antagonist from proceeding towards his destination by interposing herself in his way. She's not much larger than a regular person, neither is he and that have the same Speed and are on relatively open ground. I was considering competing Dex rolls. 

 

Another player wants to Grab her opponent who is surrounded by a small Force Wall, basically a bubble around his person but that doesn't fill his hex. Its a solid force wall (PD and ED) so could it be 'grabbed'? She has Stretching so its possible her for her to reach around it.

[mrinku]

If the idea in the first case is to get the other guy to stop and engage them, maybe run it as a Presence attack? i.e. "You Shall Not Pass!"

 

If the Force Wall is mobile and only slightly larger than the person, I can't see a problem with a Stretcher type grabbing the whole business. They should be able to throw or squeeze it as usual.

 

If the force wall isn't mobile, it'll be the same as scenery. I'd still be okay with grabbing it and doing STR damage to it, but throwing might be out.

[phoenix240]

1 hour ago, mrinku said:

If the idea in the first case is to get the other guy to stop and engage them, maybe run it as a Presence attack? i.e. "You Shall Not Pass!"

 

 

 Thanks, As for the first question let me clarify: She wants to physically impose herself to keep him from proceeding a certain direction. She doesn't particularly want him to attack her just to keep him from getting where want to go. 

[mrinku]

Probably a held action would do it. She's waiting for him to move and will move to intercept.

[dsatow]

Here is what I would suggest, by as Steve Long likes to say, "this is why we have GMs".  Anything that seems fair to the player would probably be good.

 

You can probably treat it as a block.  At least that is what I would do.  Of course, the target might attempt to shove their way past in which case it would devolve into a strength vs strength match.  Martial maneuver root could also me useful.

 

Depending on the special effect of the force wall, I don't see why not.  If they have the strength to damage the force wall, they should have the strength to move it (again if special effects allow).

[Doc Democracy]

The question of interposing is a good one.  I think that there needs to be some thought put to this as, rules as written, kind of allow folk to walk past others.

 

If someone is going to actively interpose themselves then that is an action.  It could be block or it could be move through :-)

 

I like the block option as block can be repeated - so you might play it as the runner using movement to get to a target, if the blocker has declared intent to block as this action then the blocker can use movement to interpose between the target and the runner if the relevant roll is made.  If the block is good then the runner cannot go by and must alter course.  If they have enough movement they may try again and the blocker (if they have enough movement) may try to block again - the rules allow for multiple blocks. Alternatively, if the runner thinks they have the means, can attempt to knock back the blocker using casual STR, if they can manage that, then they get to blow away the blocker and continue on their way...

 

I think that might work as a starting point.

 

Doc

[Ninja-Bear]

Have considered using the covered maneuver? I can see that also working for blocking a path.

 

As to the Grab, yeah I would allow it.

[massey]

Either the cover maneuver to do a grab, or a held action would work.

[Barwickian]

Held action. "I plant myself here and will let no one pass."

It's an issue common to all turn-based games - you're not actually standing still in the doorway unless you say so - you're already beginning your next action. We just break it down into turns to make actions easier.

[DasBroot]

Another vote for Held Action - grab if she's already in his path, Grab By if she has to 'intercept'.

 

Alternatively, if she's already in the way, Held action - Leg Sweep.  That will end his move nicely.

 

Another alternative might be Dive for Cover - which specifically allows you to leap in the way and take a hit for someone else.  Why not leap in the way, period? Once you're in their path their movement becomes a Move Through (basically they crash into/trip over you - you become a Wall), which may impair their movement (as per Move Through)

 

(Actually a pretty neat and thematic trick if that's allowed and you have knockback resistance from some source: Vision leaps in the way in his density increased state and Rhino is stopped in his tracks)

[mrinku]

Ninja Hero had a Tackle maneuver (built for the Football style). Sacrifice Throw also seems appropriate here.

[dsatow]

Technically if the character is blocking the only way through, such as a doorway, I would allow Root the martial maneuver.  If the person is allowed to run around the person, cover may be best.  It really depends on the environment and situation.

[mrinku]

Trip would also work to deal with someone running past.

[Vanguard]

4 hours ago, dsatow said:

Technically if the character is blocking the only way through, such as a doorway, I would allow Root the martial maneuver.  If the person is allowed to run around the person, cover may be best.  It really depends on the environment and situation.

 

Hmm, that brings something to mind.

 

Is there a "standard" Root maneuver? I ask because if I recall correctly, the martial maneuvers all seem to have a standard counterpart with the martial one just giving O/DCV modifiers as well as additional effects (IE: bonus str for grabs, etc)

 

If not, then perhaps the GM can just rule that there's a normal root that does get any of the bene's as the martial one and then go from there?

[Ninja-Bear]

Last I knew (5th) there was no standard Root maneuver but rules to make such a maneuver into a Standard one. You used the maneuver build rules and make the skill 0-1 pts.

[Vanguard]

Ah, that's probably what I'm remembering . . . . 

[mrinku]

Well, "Root" didn't make it to Champions Complete so I'd have to check earlier editions. However since its effects are to give you a STR bonus to resisting Shove and KB, which is both passive and something anyone can do, the "normal" version would just be having STR and using it to resist the push.

 

Oh, and while looking that up I spotted "Guarding Areas" on CC p156, which directly deals with the OP's question. You can hold an action and declare you're "guarding" a 2m radius area, allowing you to attack anyone who enters it (and they're ½ DCV unless they moved in the area to directly arrack the Guarding character).

[dsatow]

Root is in the ultimate martial artist.  I think only Sumo uses it.

[mrinku]

It occurred in Ninja Hero, too (4e). Sumo and Football used it there. AFAIK all versions of NH/UMA are basically compatible across all editions. Even in 3e you could drop the Champions Martial Arts rules and choose to use those from Danger International, which might be where it originally occurred.

[Doc Democracy]

6 hours ago, mrinku said:

Well, "Root" didn't make it to Champions Complete so I'd have to check earlier editions. However since its effects are to give you a STR bonus to resisting Shove and KB, which is both passive and something anyone can do, the "normal" version would just be having STR and using it to resist the push.

 

Oh, and while looking that up I spotted "Guarding Areas" on CC p156, which directly deals with the OP's question. You can hold an action and declare you're "guarding" a 2m radius area, allowing you to attack anyone who enters it (and they're ½ DCV unless they moved in the area to directly arrack the Guarding character).

 

It is all very well being able to attack someone (the 1/2 DCV is welcome).  I would rather have the haymaker bonus to damage than the better chance to hit....

[mrinku]

If they're going fast enough, Trip might end up doing the most damage anyway, especially if they slam into a wall or something 

 

"Guard" appears to be something you can combine with other actions, so you may still get the opportunity to Haymaker if they don't move out of range first...

[Doc Democracy]

Almost all of the actions, except perhaps Trip or grab, do not explicitly prevent the opponent continuing their progress to the target.  Trip would be a difficult manouevre on a flyer.

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

10 hours ago, dsatow said:

Root is in the ultimate martial artist.  I think only Sumo uses it.

I believe Tai Chi also uses it too. And was available to the Kung Fu list.

[DasBroot]

8 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

Almost all of the actions, except perhaps Trip or grab, do not explicitly prevent the opponent continuing their progress to the target.  Trip would be a difficult manouevre on a flyer.

 

 

 

I think even 1 m of  knockback done by whatever attack you held would - it knocks them prone.  Standing is at least a zero phase action (position shift or Acrobatics) or a move action.

 

In that regard, as with most combat situations, the advantage goes to Ranged - no muss, no fuss, no rules interpretation:  Hold your action and Blast anyone who moves towards your friends (with or without the Suppression Fire rule).

 

(Then again the rules don't define a movement penalty for being prone that I've ever found - could someone Running 60 m get knocked down at 45 m and then crawl the last 15?  Could he just crawl 60 in the first place?)

 

 

[Hyper-Man]

Getting up from being Prone is a half phase action.