Hyper-Man Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 I imagine trying to move while still Prone would be similar to a vertical Leap that imposes a x1/4 penalty at a minimum. How fast could soldiers crawl under barbed wire during WWII boot camp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 I would say if someone was running toward you and you hit them, doing 1" knock back that it simply takes 1" off their total movement that phase. you can use flight to brace against knockback and, if you do, you are not knocked prone if there is no knockback. doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasBroot Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 Steve's answer: http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/96241-moving-while-prone/ In short he believes that knockdown or knockback cancels a current movement action - if the character wants to keep moving he can either take another move (if he was moving on a half phase action and has another half phase action left) or on his next phase (if he was disrupted during a full move action). It makes sense to me. I've never tripped or been knocked over without taking a second to stand up and start from scratch. It makes stopping fleeing villains easier, too - peg them with an AoE as they book it at NCM and arrest them as they skid to a stop. That's pretty much a classic way of dealing with the situation in comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, DasBroot said: Steve's answer: In short he believes that knockdown or knockback cancels a current movement action - if the character wants to keep moving he can either take another move (if he was moving on a half phase action and has another half phase action left) or on his next phase (if he was disrupted during a full move action). One of those occasions where I will be diverging from the wisdom from on high. :-) Or will change the way I use the rules - a trip I agree with - I will change your chance of knockback to be (BODY damage of attack-2D6-unused movement). If you get to 0 or below with that then you knockdown or knockback your opponent. if you do not, then you do not stop them. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 It's somewhat situational anyway. A giant snake isn't going to be inconvenienced by a Trip action. Knockdown might cause it to pause, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 On 11/15/2017 at 3:27 PM, mrinku said: It's somewhat situational anyway. A giant snake isn't going to be inconvenienced by a Trip action. Knockdown might cause it to pause, though. Depends how the maneuver was bought. Mechanically, yes it would. It may be coiled in the same spot but would lose its action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) On 11/15/2017 at 3:27 PM, mrinku said: Edited November 17, 2017 by Ninja-Bear Double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 17 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said: Depends how the maneuver was bought. Mechanically, yes it would. It may be coiled in the same spot but would lose its action. Well, Trip can hardly make a target that's already on the ground "fall to the ground". I'm happy for the maneuver to be used against a speeding snake to throw it off balance and skid into a wall or something, but aside from that Trip doesn't actually do anything but make them Prone. Some moves just don't work on some targets - Legsweep is another that makes no sense on a snake, or other already prone target. Choke Hold needs a limb; a spherical creature without any is immune. Disarm requires a thing that can BE disarmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 Never said the snake wasn’t already on the ground. However if the trip is defined as a strong push type kick, then I see that then snake’s upper body recoils and the snake loses it action as it readies itself for another strike. chike hold by definition has a negative element - limbs by build and I would say Disarm does too by default. However, if you can define an offensive strike as a punch or kick or head butt or rapid strike, well then you can define trip or grab maneuvers special effect to be different than what the name implies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 Um, being made Prone doesn't lose you an action. Anyone can attack or move from the prone position. Non-snake example: Slow Sam trips Fast Mike as he runs past, and Mike falls to the floor, taking a small amount of STUN in the process. Mike gets the next phase, fast draws his pistol and plugs Sam. Snake example: Jungle Jane Trips a giant python, flipping it over her head and throwing it onto the ground on the other side from where it was. Next phase, the python grabs Jane and starts to squeeze... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, mrinku said: Um, being made Prone doesn't lose you an action. Anyone can attack or move from the prone position. Half phase to get up. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 And if the snake suffers the “prone” penalties then his buddies can hit the snake easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 Well, I'd rule the snake starts and stays prone anyway. Any DCV penalties should be built in since it can't actually stand up. But if you want to start adding a "super-prone" state to indicate a prone target that's been made even more prone, you're welcome to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 18, 2017 Report Share Posted November 18, 2017 A snake that’s coiled to strike in my humble opinion is not prone. Not when they can strike several feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 I am with Ninja-Bear here. We have a picture in our head of what prone means, a person sprawling on the floor, needing to get up to be combat ready again. There are however game mechanic penalties that can be applied to any opponent, not prone as described in the dictionary, but prone as described in the rulebook, with subsequent penalties and time needed to get rid of those penalties. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 Sharpshooters are known to go go prone to *increase* their combat effectiveness.... Here, I'll make it easier for you. Forget about snakes and we'll stick with a spherical robot that moves by rolling. Now discuss how the Trip maneuver *has* to provide some equivalent to making it Prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 Don't need to discuss, it is a game mechanic, I made the requisite roll and I want the resulting benefits. the spherical robot, if it wants to be immune to that combat mechanic will need to buy that. I think something like levels, only against trip or some other more complex power. i would say it is prone when set to spinning such that it cannot get its bearings and needs a second or two to orient itself. anything that sounds reasonable really. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 4 hours ago, mrinku said: Sharpshooters are known to go go prone to *increase* their combat effectiveness.... Here, I'll make it easier for you. Forget about snakes and we'll stick with a spherical robot that moves by rolling. Now discuss how the Trip maneuver *has* to provide some equivalent to making it Prone. Easy I hit BB-8 so hard (or correctly) that he is disoriented enough that he suffers a 1/2 DCV And takes a 1/2 to orientate himself in order to move. Seriously once you accept that someone is flying and can make a breakfall roll to orientate himsel, how much of a gap is it to “trip” a spherical droid? Now if I bought the trip as a school boy move, yeah no but again if I bought it as a powerful front snap kick? Yeah I’d allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 Trip is just a form of Martial Throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 Given that you have to pay points for Martial Throw, it's really the other way around, but historically you're right. Martial Throw existed before the Trip maneuver was defined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 Trip is a Martial Arts Maneuver. It is not listed under the default combat maneuvers however there is an optional 'normal' non-martial version published somewhere similar to the relationship between a Grab and Martial Grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 Trip like a Martial Throw requires the user to have enough STR including a normal Push to lift the target to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 Trip used to be a Martial Maneuver, but CC has it as a Standard one (P153, right after Throw and the last Standard maneuver described before the Optional ones). I realise this is different in previous editions - it's moved around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 Thanks for the catch. I was confusing Leg Sweep which is a martial maneuver with Trip which is a standard one. Legsweep 1/2 +2 -1 STR +1d6 Strike; Target Falls They are both still based on the STR min of a Throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 No worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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