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Star Wars 8 complaint box

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Leaving Luke's failure to restore the Jedi Order aside, how great a job did the Rebellion do?  After destroying the Emperor and Vader, and striking a huge blow to the Imperial Navy at Endor, there wasn't enough Imperial security in the capital to prevent celebrations/riots in the streets.  20 or so years later, we find the galaxy under the boot of the First Order, and the Rebellion with less resources than they had in the original trilogy after 20 years of the Empire working to stamp them out.

 

It would have been a nice acknowledgement of the effort and success of the OT heroes had the galaxy actually managed to move forward a little, rather than falling backwards to where it was, if  not worse, before they "heroically won" the struggle against the Empire.  That, to me, is a greater failing than Luke being placed on a pedestal high enough to fall from.

 

It seems like all the efforts of the OT heroes ultimately came to nothing.  They didn't progress.  They didn't even hold on to any of the ground they had gained.  That feels like the bigger disrespect aimed at Luke, Han and Leia - all of their efforts and success against all odds was meaningless - within a few short years, anything and everything they had achieved had been lost.

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45 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Leaving Luke's failure to restore the Jedi Order aside, how great a job did the Rebellion do?  After destroying the Emperor and Vader, and striking a huge blow to the Imperial Navy at Endor, there wasn't enough Imperial security in the capital to prevent celebrations/riots in the streets.  20 or so years later, we find the galaxy under the boot of the First Order, and the Rebellion with less resources than they had in the original trilogy after 20 years of the Empire working to stamp them out.

 

It would have been a nice acknowledgement of the effort and success of the OT heroes had the galaxy actually managed to move forward a little, rather than falling backwards to where it was, if  not worse, before they "heroically won" the struggle against the Empire.  That, to me, is a greater failing than Luke being placed on a pedestal high enough to fall from.

 

It seems like all the efforts of the OT heroes ultimately came to nothing.  They didn't progress.  They didn't even hold on to any of the ground they had gained.  That feels like the bigger disrespect aimed at Luke, Han and Leia - all of their efforts and success against all odds was meaningless - within a few short years, anything and everything they had achieved had been lost.

 

I agree completely.

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One problem with The Last Jedi is that it didn't seem to fill the gaps between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens.  I'm willing to accept that a lot has changed in 35 years, and so when TFA seemed to press the reset button on everything, I was interested to see how we got from triumphant singing Ewoks to Darth Emo and his merry band of neo-nazis.  The Rebellion won, but then fell apart again?  Luke is in hiding on some island?    How did the First Order get all that stuff?  Somewhere out there, there is a good story that explains all these things and that makes logical sense, without doing damage to beloved characters.  That's just not what we got with TLJ.  Many of the issues that I had with TFA were still "solvable" depending on how Episode 8 handled them.  And then it bungled them.  It's a tale of missed opportunities.  You can have Luke be a hermit and it be okay.  TLJ just failed to do it.

 

I had loads of problems with the prequels, so comparing TLJ to them doesn't really help anything.  It's just saying "hey, remember when they made those other bad movies?  Those were pretty bad too, huh?"  Yes, those were bad movies too.  It doesn't make this one any less bad.

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4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

It seems like all the efforts of the OT heroes ultimately came to nothing.  They didn't progress.  They didn't even hold on to any of the ground they had gained.  That feels like the bigger disrespect aimed at Luke, Han and Leia - all of their efforts and success against all odds was meaningless - within a few short years, anything and everything they had achieved had been lost.

 

There's still (at least) one more movie to wrap this up.  In my mental fanfic, Luke was right--the Jedi had to end, along with the Sith, just as the Rebelliance has to end, along with the Imperial Order.  Because all the opposition has to end; the Jedi and Sith need to unite, and the Resistance and First Order need to settle their differences, for there to be lasting peace.

 

Readers are free to have differing, and therefore incorrect, opinions.

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1 hour ago, Old Man said:

 

There's still (at least) one more movie to wrap this up.  In my mental fanfic, Luke was right--the Jedi had to end, along with the Sith, just as the Rebelliance has to end, along with the Imperial Order.  Because all the opposition has to end; the Jedi and Sith need to unite, and the Resistance and First Order need to settle their differences, for there to be lasting peace.

 

Maybe if we get JMS to write Starbalon Wars V...

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3 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

There's still (at least) one more movie to wrap this up.  In my mental fanfic, Luke was right--the Jedi had to end, along with the Sith, just as the Rebelliance has to end, along with the Imperial Order.  Because all the opposition has to end; the Jedi and Sith need to unite, and the Resistance and First Order need to settle their differences, for there to be lasting peace.

 

Readers are free to have differing, and therefore incorrect, opinions.

 

Star Wars 9:  Nothing Happens

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9 hours ago, massey said:

I had loads of problems with the prequels, so comparing TLJ to them doesn't really help anything.  It's just saying "hey, remember when they made those other bad movies?  Those were pretty bad too, huh?"  Yes, those were bad movies too.  It doesn't make this one any less bad. 

 

It's more like after watching the prequels we said, "Hey, it can't get worse than this." Then JJ Abrams raised an eyebrow and said, "Hold my beer."

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Whenever Kylo would fume, rant, and scream about "destroying the past", I wasn't hearing Adam Driver as Kylo Ren: I was hearing Adam Driver as "writer with a chip on his shoulder".

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16 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

The only two Jedi left to defend the galaxy from one Sith Master and one Sith Lord?  Seems like what they need is some military to counter the Empire's military - some sort of Rebellion, perhaps?  And this assumes every other Jedi died in one day.  They chose to wait a generation, while people (planets full of them) died, hoping one of the Vader Twins would work out as a great savior of the galaxy.

 

 

We don't know all of the factors that cause Luke to give up on the Jedi as a positive force.  I attribute it less to Kylo falling to the Dark Side and more to his own failings, such as nearly falling to the Dark Side himself by killing Kylo.  Was he wrong?  All those Jedi a generation back, and Palpatine still corrupted their "Chosen One" (you would think people would pay more attention to a Chosen One), killed the Jedi and took over.  How did that New Order turn out?  well, the most promising student turned to the Dark Side, practically driven there by Luke himself.  That's not bad enough - it was his own nephew. 

 

We assume Luke is the Great Jedi of Jedi.  Was he really?  His training was rushed, and it was known he had to face Vader, likely Palpatine as well, so a focus on combat training over philosophy and his own teaching skills seems likely.  Didi he really "win" on Endor, or did his imminent demise, Palpatine's willingness to kill him off to get his bright, shiny new apprentice, and some bond of familial loyalty push Vader over the edge to get a lucky win against Palpatine?  The Force does not seem to differentiate between Light and Dark for power - why couldbn't a Sith Lord manifest as a Force Ghost?

 

Perhaps part of Luke's fall was due to exactly what we see on this thread - all these people thinking he is the Great Hope who will rebuild the Jedi Order and shepherd the galaxy to a new Golden Age.  That's a lot of responsibility to put on the shoulders of this mid-20s farmboy-turned-rebel, don't you think?  How much pressure was he under?  Maybe he wasn't the Great Jedi Savior, just a kid with strong ties to the Force who was in the right place at the right time.  Obi-Wan and Yoda kind of put all their eggs in one basket, didn't they?  Not that they had a lot of eggs to choose from anyway.

 

BTW, where did that Jedi library come from, anyway?  It doesn't seem like Yoda had a great place to keep books in the swamp, even if he'd been able to gather them up while fleeing Coruscant.  Seems like Luke was trying to supplement his own limited knowledge of Jedi teachings.

 

Except I don't remember the phrase "Luke is Great Jedi" being mentioned.  He was the greatest living one.  But, when the number is one, kind of hard not to be.

 

But, according to Disney, it is all about genetics on who Luke cares about sacrificing all to save.  A father shares enough genetics with him to sacrifice himself to save.  But, a nephew just doesn't cut it.  

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8 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

Star Wars 9:  Nothing Happens

 

Yeah, pretty much.  Didn't the Sith say "peace is an illusion"?  That might be one thing they got right.

 

And everything went to hell, because the Rebel Alliance got complacent thinking "evil could never possibly rise again.   How many times have our own world fell for that?

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When it come to slogging through internet stories that I have link through 83 pages to get the full story?  That's like standing in the DMV line behind an old lady renewing her liscense. (who will inevitably get it renewed even if she cant read the E on the eyechart.....while wearing her glasses)  :jawdrop:

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18 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

Yes, but what about Wicket?

 

Well, no word on the Ewok in question, but the actor has been part of the cast for Episode VII, Episode VIII, Rogue One, and Solo: A Star Wars Story, so odds are good for him to be in IX.

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