Christopher R Taylor Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 Since starfleet is only military in the most vague, least significant sense of the term, I don't know as civilian is all that different than enlisted on a starship. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said: Since starfleet is only military in the most vague, least significant sense of the term, I don't know as civilian is all that different than enlisted on a starship. There is a definite established difference between Starfleet and non-Starfleet in pretty much all the series. It is just most people tend to try and paint a one size fits all stamp on things. The TV series made it pretty obvious that some ships, especially long term explorers or long term science vessels would have family aboard. But they had far more stories rooted in "I hardly ever saw my father/mother/etc. because they were Starfleet and always gone on their ships". So I am guessing it is like most modern services when posted out of their home country. If the posting is low risk, then it is accompanied. If it is not, then it is unaccompanied. Simple and logical. Ninja-Bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Some ships are clearly more "military" than others. I wouldn't want to reside on the U.S.S. Cairo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Whatever the civilian is doing, he/she has been doing it for over three years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 11 hours ago, dmjalund said: Whatever the civilian is doing, he/she has been doing it for over three years! "The topic cleans itself." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 The last time Star Trek was military in the strictest sense was Enterprise when they had the Macos (Marines) on board. I haven't watched Discovery, so I have no clue about that show. But TOS has had it's share of civilians, even a Cook. I do remember an episode where Kirk et. al. were served real food. Please correct me if I am wrong I may be remembering the movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Actually, I think it's on a space station. The TOS Enterprise definitely didn't have a cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 They did in The Undiscovered Country. They served what amounted to a State Dinner. cbullard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbullard Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Sundog said: Actually, I think it's on a space station. The TOS Enterprise definitely didn't have a cook. I disagree. In "Charlie X" Roddenberry himself played the voice of a chef who reported to Kirk that there were real turkeys in the ovens. Scott Ruggels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbullard Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 12 hours ago, Strand said: The last time Star Trek was military in the strictest sense was Enterprise when they had the Macos (Marines) on board. I haven't watched Discovery, so I have no clue about that show. But TOS has had it's share of civilians, even a Cook. I do remember an episode where Kirk et. al. were served real food. Please correct me if I am wrong I may be remembering the movies. Wouldn't Starfleet security personnel in later series be the equivalent of the Macos? Tasha Yar and Worf from TNG, and an loooong line of redshirts from TOS, all of whom provided both onboard security (including armed guard duty on the bridge at times) and landing party cannon fodder.... I mean, protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 9 hours ago, cbullard said: I disagree. In "Charlie X" Roddenberry himself played the voice of a chef who reported to Kirk that there were real turkeys in the ovens. I stand corrected. Suspect it might count as early series weirdness. cbullard and Scott Ruggels 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starblaze Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 On 12/22/2017 at 9:11 PM, megaplayboy said: Well, they went from basically 0% civilians in TOS to maybe 20% civilians in TNG. I think 200 civvies out of 1000 passengers and crew is not outrageous. Probably a mix of scientists, technicians, civil engineers, teachers, etc. Remember, they're supposed to be seeking out new life and new civilizations--that's going to require people with specializations that are likely to be found outside Starfleet MOS. Not every Federation vessel is necessarily going to have that military/civilian mix. A scientific research vessel would likely have more civvies, and a border patrol vessel would likely have very few civilians. AIUI, some of the accommodation for civilians is for married crew or those with families to bring them along--a 5 year mission is a long time away from family. Don't forget the TOS Enterprise had about 430 crewman onboard, the Enterprise-D had about 1,000 people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy523 Posted October 28, 2021 Report Share Posted October 28, 2021 The first question you have to ask is what do civilians do especially for work anywhere. With Replicator technology manufacturing is probably cerebral engineering jobs only. So there are no wage slaves in meaningless nine to five clock punching jobs. Service type jobs like waiters, hostesses, concierges in hotels etc. only exist to give that sentient being touch to the ambience of the place. Maybe there is a high demand for that, people to wait on you hand and foot but probably only in tourist areas or fancy restaurants etc. So maybe there are a lot of these in the future, depends on the overall economy. Star Trek always shows us the educated elite class, never the huddled masses of Star Fleet. So who knows. One could assume that the majority of people in the Federation have no job and are on a type of welfare but I think that would not work IRL. Many of the ghettos and slums in the US that have high crime and murder rates are not so because the people are poor and can't feed themselves. Really it is because the US Welfare system punishes people on it who try and save and get out by dropping them from the roles and fining them. This leads to the only way to advance in life is to do something under the table and illegal. These neighborhoods in the 1920's were arguably poorer than in current year but their children had higher literacy rates and many more of them advanced out of poverty. Because of this I got to think that for the Federation to be the moneyless Utopia they proclaim it is that the majority of people do have jobs and work if only for the self satisfaction and confidence is gives people. If not then those hoods they don't show in Star trek would be crime ridden hell holes. Another possibility is that everyone is an artist now. People write poetry, write about other people on blogs doing reporting, have their version of You Tube channels, write short stories, paint and draw and those without any talent would of course become critics telling everyone else what is good and what is not. This area of society could expand to where there were many jobs in this field because why not. It gives people something to do, gives them a sense of self worth and since energy is free and anything you want you can make out of a replicator then this would be the one area of society that humans and sentients would be able to dominate over machines. The other possibility is that Star Fleet is heavily regulated and there are bureaucrats everywhere who are controlling aspects of society and so you need millions of investigators, clerks and enforcers to keep everyone straight on the rules. This would seem counter to the Zeitgeist of the Star Fleet Universe but maybe in the future they invented the impossible, a bureaucrat that actually can help people. Once you figure this all out then you can more easily answer the question Who is on the Star Ship? Is everyone a budding artist, well you can do that anywhere so why not a Starship. Maybe for some that gives them inspiration. SteveZilla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted July 27, 2022 Report Share Posted July 27, 2022 Barbers, bartenders, Artists of various mediums, hyper-specialists, Emotional Support Humans... It's a city. But because of technology there is little call for manufacturing positions. There seems to be no widespread use of advanced robotics (unless you count holographic characters on the holodeck, which could do work - though I think that would be energy-wasteful). A hyper-specialist that for whatever reason isn't in Starfleet is also a possibility. The civilian population would need counselors of their own - Deanna Troi can't shrink the entire crew and civilian compliment after all. If one presumes that some technology and/or substances cannot be replicated into existence, then there will need to be the industry to produce them - possibly on a large ship even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 Suggesting that a fair number of them were prostitutes would probably be too grimdark for Star Trek. In the Federation at large there are basically going to be four categories of occupation Scientist Artist Bureaucrat Person providing unnecessary personal services. Shuttlecraft steward, Bartender and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 15 minutes ago, Clonus said: Suggesting that a fair number of them were prostitutes would probably be too grimdark for Star Trek. when you have a holodeck, who needs a prostitute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 10 hours ago, dmjalund said: when you have a holodeck, who needs a prostitute? It comes under the category of unnecessary personal services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 On 7/29/2022 at 9:27 PM, Clonus said: Suggesting that a fair number of them were prostitutes would probably be too grimdark for Star Trek. Grimdark, or socially permissive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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