Black Widow

[dmjalund]

 

 

And we have a winner!

That's exactly what it means. At a time when everybody is speculating on who lives and who dies in Infinity War and its sequel, this tells us that Tasha survives.

unless it's a period piece

[Christopher R Taylor]

A story of Black Widow's redemption for things she did in the past, the "blood no her ledger" is a reasonable idea for her first film.

[Bazza]

Dmjalund has the right idea...

 

A Black Widow Movie Doesn’t Mean She Survives Avengers 4

https://screenrant.com/black-widow-movie-avengers-4-death/

[Pariah]

Given Thanos and his fascination with death, it may be necessary to go into the Realm of the Dead in order to defeat him. This could provide an opportunity to bring back, or at least revisit, characters who have died in previous movies.

[Bazza]

The only character that has really died is Quicksilver. 

 

And good point/idea. Wish I thought of it... (  )

[Matt the Bruins]

On 1/13/2018 at 12:00 AM, Doc Shadow said:

Question for all of you. What does this tell us? What does Marvel commissioning a script for a solo Black Widow film tell us?

 

That Disney saw Warner Bros. rake in somewhere between a half billion to a billion dollars on Wonder Woman merchandise and stopped listening to whatever twit in their ranks kept insisting that no one would buy toys and such featuring female heroes?

[Christopher R Taylor]

It was a really dumb death for Quicksilver too, one of those "I wanna kill a character in this movie" deaths rather than story or plot.  I mean seriously, all those blasts and bullets flying everywhere, and the only one to get seriously hit is the guy with the highest DCV in the group?

[Old Man]

He took the hit for someone who was DCV 0, so...

[Doc Shadow]

Yes but those were high powered rounds. They should have torn huge, bloody holes through all three of them and still had enough energy left over to punch some pretty good sized divots in the landscape. But movie physics.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Clearly moving him out of the way was not an option.  Seriously, he didn't die because he had to or it was a high point of heroism, but because Joss Whedon was damned if he wasn't going to kill someone since he got cheated out of his great dramatic death in the previous film (Agent Coulson was not supposed to come back).

[slikmar]

I always assumed Quicksilver's death was due to a deal between Fox and Marvel regarding who was going to be using the character going forward. Marvel got to use him for one film. They then got to keep Scarlett Witch and Fox got to keep Quicksilver with their new X-men launch.

[Starlord]

http://www.indiewire.com/2015/05/joss-whedon-shot-an-alternate-avengers-age-of-ultron-ending-where-redacted-doesnt-die-much-more-264409/

 

The director said the first day he met Aaron Taylor-Johnson for the role of Quicksilver, he told the actor that he intended to kill the character and that he would stay dead… unless Marvel suits strongly objected

 

Whedon acknowledged that he was one of the reasons that Agent Coulson was revived for TV, and while he doesn’t sound like he regretted it, he didn’t want to repeat this with Quicksilver’s death.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

I always assumed Quicksilver's death was due to a deal between Fox and Marvel regarding who was going to be using the character going forward

 

I think the "two Quicksilvers" dilemma was part of the reason that character was chosen to die, but Joss was gonna off someone, no matter what.  I think he believes it adds weight and meaning to stories to off someone or have horrendous betrayals.

[Old Man]

Whedon has gone on record to say that character death is necessary to convey the seriousness of the situation to an audience and add to the dramatic weight of the plot.  To be fair, Whedon-deaths usually do add a lot to his films.  Even Wash's.

[Pariah]

Wash's death (and Shepherd Book's death, to a lesser degree) went a long way toward conveying just how serious that situation had become. In the final fight, I couldn't help but think, "Who else is gonna die here? Kaylee? Zoe? Simon?" (I didn't believe for a moment that River was going to die, by the way.) So yeah, in that movie, it was quite effective.

 

In A:AoU, Quicksilver's death scene was stupid and unnecessary. It didn't lend gravitas to the film, it didn't convince me that anyone else was in mortal danger, and it didn't make me take Ultron any more seriously than I did before. Yes, I suppose it convinced me that Quicksilver had learned the meaning of true heroism, but there were other ways that could have been accomplished. All in all, I saw it as a waste of a potentially very interesting character.

[Bazza]

58 minutes ago, Pariah said:

Wash's death (and Shepherd Book's death, to a lesser degree) went a long way toward conveying just how serious that situation had become. In the final fight, I couldn't help but think, "Who else is gonna die here? Kaylee? Zoe? Simon?" (I didn't believe for a moment that River was going to die, by the way.) So yeah, in that movie, it was quite effective.

 

In A:AoU, Quicksilver's death scene was stupid and unnecessary. It didn't lend gravitas to the film, it didn't convince me that anyone else was in mortal danger, and it didn't make me take Ultron any more seriously than I did before. Yes, I suppose it convinced me that Quicksilver had learned the meaning of true heroism, but there were other ways that could have been accomplished. All in all, I saw it as a waste of a potentially very interesting character.

 

Another reason and I'm guess the main one why Quicksilver died, and has stayed dead (so far) is that each of the preceding Phase 2 films has a fake death of a character. In Iron Man 3, that is Pepper Potts; in Thor 2, it is Loki, Captain America 2 has Nick Fury, and Guardians of the Galaxy as Groot's fake death. 

 

So Marvel was under pressure to have one death "count" and "mean something". 

 

Quicksilver drew the short straw. 

[Greywind]

Groot died.

 

Baby Groot is a new Groot.

[Bazza]

Agree, and Gunn has stated so. However at the time it seemed like Baby Groot was the same Groot. 

 

And to keep with the theme of Phase 2 fake deaths. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think Groots are pretty well indistinguishable, so really they are the same character.  Its not like he's going to learn to say anything else or have a different personality

[Old Man]

I dunno, the Groots we saw in gotg2 were pretty different from the one in gotg1. 

[Pariah]

I am Groot. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

The distinction seemed more in age than temperament to me at least.  Baby Groot was just a little rascal boy like Dennis the Menace, but still the same basic Groot.

[bigdamnhero]

First up: YAY!

 

On 1/11/2018 at 12:14 PM, Cassandra said:

They showed the preview on Saturday Night Live.

Hysterical, tho I think that clip is actually a couple years old. (The "Coming in 2016" was a clue.) But was I the only one thinking "C'mon, we know Ultron is in love with the Wasp! He'd never abandon Janet for Natasha!"

...

Just me then? OK.

 

On 1/12/2018 at 4:04 AM, Doc Shadow said:

The only problem is that no one under 40 would recognize Moose and Squirrel.

You underestimate the pop-culture fu of your average Millennial. Moose & Squirrel is part of common knowledge now, even among people who've never seen an actual Bullwinkle episode.

 

On 1/13/2018 at 12:00 AM, Bazza said:

Marvel commisioning a screenplay or treatment means absolutely nothing. 

It doesn't mean this specific script is the one that will get filmed, sure. But it means they're serious about making a BW movie. I wouldn't call it a done deal, but after all these years of "maybe, some day, love to but reasons..." this is a huge step forward.

 

On 1/15/2018 at 1:18 PM, Matt the Bruins said:

That Disney saw Warner Bros. rake in somewhere between a half billion to a billion dollars on Wonder Woman merchandise and stopped listening to whatever twit in their ranks kept insisting that no one would buy toys and such featuring female heroes?

The twit in this case being Ike Perlmutter, from all accounts. Who Disney pushed out of the way in 2015.

 

On 1/15/2018 at 7:25 PM, Pariah said:

In A:AoU, Quicksilver's death scene was stupid and unnecessary. It didn't lend gravitas to the film, it didn't convince me that anyone else was in mortal danger, and it didn't make me take Ultron any more seriously than I did before. Yes, I suppose it convinced me that Quicksilver had learned the meaning of true heroism, but there were other ways that could have been accomplished. All in all, I saw it as a waste of a potentially very interesting character.

I wouldn't say it was unnecessary, personally. But like a lot of things in AoU, it just wasn't handled as well as it could've been.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I think a Black Widow movie is a matter of time, especially if Captain Marvel does well.

[zslane]

The way I see it, not all "superhero" movies starring female title leads have the same commercial potential. I mean, anyone who thinks they can look at Wonder Woman as an example of what to expect, commercially speaking, from a Black Widow movie will be gravely disappointed when the box office returns roll in. Making a Black Widow film doesn't feel like a move aimed at making a lot of money (which is what movie studios are in the business of doing). It feels like a move aimed at appeasing a small, very vocal segment of SJWs who have been using YouTube and social media to great effect in shaping the narrative regarding what should be done to fix the problem of female under-representation in superhero movies.

 

Unfortunately for Marvel, when it comes to female characters, I feel that DC has a bit of a leg up on them. Wonder Woman, Batgirl, Supergirl, and Harley Quinn are more poised to exploit their pop culture icon potential than any female characters in Marvel's stable. Marvel must do their usual thing of swimming against the current and turning obscure characters into beloved icons. So far they have Black Widow, Jessica Jones, Valkyrie, and (coming up) Capt. Marvel to show for their efforts. I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that Wonder Woman overshadows them all. A Black Widow movie just feels like a bit of a desperation play to me; an attempt to appear "relevant" in the social-media-driven gender wars that has overtaken the conversation about Hollywood right now.