Presence Tricks?

[g3taso]

It seems from the dearth of PRE posts on the board that PRE doesn't get much love. I haven't used it much but I thought I might give it a spin on a new campaign, to which I have invested points for a PRE 20 score (damn those characteristic maximums!).

 

So aside from PRE attacks to go first in a Phase, are there other things it can do in and out of combat? Presence tricks, if you will? In what ways can I get my money's worth out of being... undeniably majestic?  Please note our game doesn't normally use Interaction skills  much since they are a win button on NPCs.   I am hoping I might be able to use them as some type of complementary roll though.

[LoneWolf]

Is the talent striking appearance allowed?  If so that is a good way to get some extra dice on a PRE attack.  Also don’t forget to look over the chart for way to increase the dice on a PRE attack.  The key is to get your PRE attack high enough to do more than just go first.

 

Don’t forget that you can also use your own PRE attack to counter those of other people. 

 

If interaction skills are not used that does not leave a lot to do with PRE.  Are they outright banned, or simply your group does not use them because no one bothers getting them?  I don’t see to create certain types of characters if they are banned.  The whole just roleplay the skill does not take into account that most people do not actually have the skill in real life.  Just because I am not able to lie worth a dam does not mean I cannot play a smooth talking character that lies through his teeth. 

 If the interaction skill can be used I could give some ways to use them. 

[Surrealone]

 

It seems from the dearth of PRE posts on the board that PRE doesn't get much love.

It doesn't need any love because, point for point, a high PRE is one of the most effective purchases/abilities in the game ... when used properly.  Key to this is that some of the things that can give you the PRE to work with, attack-wise, are very cheap ... and they don't also provide defenses (examples: the Reputation Perk and the  Striking Appearance Talent). Also key to this is that high PRE defenses are rare.

 

Note that PRE attacks in combat suffer a -1d6 penalty ... just because you're in combat.  Successful use of Oratory (which requires an audience of 3 or more ... and does suffer moderators for a crowd being hostile) will add +1d6 to a PRE attack ... thereby countering the negative for being in combat. (If the Oratory roll is made by half, it adds +2d6!) Beyond that, consult the PRESENCE ATTACK MODIFIERS TABLE (5er p429) for a look at relevant adjustments to PRE attacks.  Your previous action (very violent?), positive Reputation (i.e. Perk) that is recognized by the opposition and aligned with actions, your soliloquy and its alignment with the foregoing, and your Striking Appearance should all play into the modifiers.

 

It's not uncommon for a 25 PRE brick who 1) made a successful Oratory roll, 2 ) just caved in a car's roof, 3) has +2d6 positive Reputation (i.e. Perk) for being very violent, 4) yells "You better run unless you want to end up like that car!", 5) and has a Striking Appearance of 'Hulk-Like' ... to A) offset the combat modifier with Oratory, B ) get +2d6 for the extremely violent action, C) get another +2d6 for Reputation due to the opposition recognizing both the Reputation and its alignment with actions, D) get another +2d6 for an excellent soliloquy, E) and get another +2d6 for the Striking Appearance ... for a total of 5d6 (base PRE Attack) + 8d6 (PRE Attack modifiers) = 13d6 PRE Attack.

 

That's a lot of dice ... for little cost.  (See why PRE needs no love, yet?)  It is, of course, the GM who should be determining the applicability of the modifiers based on your actions, and soliloquy ... while your Reputation, Striking Appearance, and Oratory are driven by your character sheet, complimentary rolls, and how well you've aligned your actions and soliloquy with them.  The GM should also determine which side has more people, better technology, the upper hand, etc. .. and modify based on those things, too.

 

[g3taso]

I haven't seen Striking Appearance, so it's definitely worth a look. Where can I find it?

[dsatow]

 

I haven't seen Striking Appearance, so it's definitely worth a look. Where can I find it?

 

under talents in the 6th ed rule nooks.

[dsatow]

I have used PRE offensively by mentalists (Telepaths/empaths).  They get a multipower slot with PRE not as a defense -1/2, costs 1/2 end -1/4.

 

It allows the telepath or empath to use their powers to win friends and influence enemies.  As Surrealone notes, with the adders and using PRE based skills, the mentalist easily becomes the face man of the group.  It can backfire in making the said telepath/empath the primary target.

[Surrealone]

 

I haven't seen Striking Appearance, so it's definitely worth a look. Where can I find it?

It's 6e thing put in place to address lack of Comeliness in 6e.  (Frankly, Striking Appearance does a much better job of capturing the concept that someone may look a specific way (be it big/mean, cute/hot, weird/alien, etc. ... compared to the largely-ignored COM stat in 5e and earlier.)

 

The 5e equivalent would be to increase Comeliness and explain what is remarkable about the character's looks to your GM ... who should add 1d6 to the PRE attack based on every 10pts of Comeliness applicable to the PRE attack.

[DasBroot]

Presence attack is another power that I roll into the 'binary' category.  

 

At heroic human levels (8-20)  it's perfectly balanced - you can get use it to get momentary advantages against opponents of weaker will from time to time.

 

"Super Presence", however, (presence taken above human maximum in a super hero game) is one of the Mutually Assured Destruction buttons in my campaigns.  It can easily be worse than mind control for a few phases.

 

The only real trick is not being strangled by the GM for remembering it exists and using it every chance you get.

[mrinku]

It's also its own defense. Also worth pointing out that your average super tends to have extreme psychology which offsets attempts to make them do stuff by PRE alone (plus they tend to have a bit of PRE anyway... it's the mooks and civilians that are vulnerable). It's very circumstantial, and the GM has final say as to what actually happens.

 

PRE is the basis of most social skills as well, so using those to supplement PRE attacks can work well. 

[Surrealone]

1 hour ago, mrinku said:

It's also its own defense.

The PRE you purchase sans limitations is, indeed, its own defense.  But the PRE you get from Reputation, from Striking Appearance, and from dice granted based on things within the PRESENCE ATTACK MODIFIERS TABLE ... don't give any defense.  I raise this as a point for consideration because most of the dice in PRE attacks ... tend not to come from raw PRE that was purchased ... and instead, come from modifiers, Reputation, and/or Striking Appearance.

[mrinku]

Situational matters can also reduce the PRE dice rolled - that's the flip side of the bonus dice you mention. Reputation might reduce the dice rolled if the target doesn't believe what the character is saying is in character ("Sorry, Batman, I know you'd never pull that trigger!"). Striking appearance will only help if appropriate to the situation... if Captain Monster (Striking Appearance - Hideous Appearance, Reputation - Unholy Beast) is trying to calm down a panicking crowd (PRE attack) they should get a penalty, while Golden Angel (Striking Appearance - Unearthly Beauty, Reputation - Paragon of Good) will probably get a bonus. If the PRE attack was trying to make them flee in terror, the modifiers would be different.

 

Probably also worth pointing out that the lower tier PRE effects may have no practical effect, especially the first tier (act before the target this phase, +5 PRE to resist contrary PRE attacks). A character that loses half a phase due to PRE+10 can still attack, and "considering very deeply what the character says" will often mean little ("Throw down your guns, villains!" "Aargh! It's the Black Prowler! GET AWAY!" *bang* *bang* *bang*).

 

PRE also defends better than it attacks - each 5 points of PRE gives 1d6 to attack, but 5 points to defense. Without modifiers, same-PRE characters are unlikely to impress each other much.

 

Unless a character is deliberately built to be timid, PRE 15 is probably a minimum for PCs in either Heroic or Superheroic. 20 would be fine for a character whose description makes a point of their leadership, charisma or domination. PRE 15 needs about 7d6 to get to +10, around 10d6 to break +20 (where it really becomes a Power). To reliably get +20 against PRE 20 you would need 12d6 or more, which is going to either require PRE as a major power, or some very favourable circumstances.

 

 

[dsatow]

Side Note: A high EGO can act as defensive PRE.

[mrinku]

Side Side Note: Only with GM permission when appropriate to the target doing something they'd normally object to  

 

If it's a simple fear one (Hulk destroys truck and screams "HULK SMASH PUNY PEOPLE!!!") with the object of making the bystanders run away, it'll be PRE unless the bystanders have "Psych: Never Runs From a Fight" or similar. Running from a dangerous situation is something people will normally be quite happy to do.

[Surrealone]

3 hours ago, mrinku said:

Situational matters can also reduce the PRE dice rolled - that's the flip side of the bonus dice you mention. Reputation might reduce the dice rolled if the target doesn't believe what the character is saying is in character ("Sorry, Batman, I know you'd never pull that trigger!"). Striking appearance will only help if appropriate to the situation... if Captain Monster (Striking Appearance - Hideous Appearance, Reputation - Unholy Beast) is trying to calm down a panicking crowd (PRE attack) they should get a penalty, while Golden Angel (Striking Appearance - Unearthly Beauty, Reputation - Paragon of Good) will probably get a bonus. If the PRE attack was trying to make them flee in terror, the modifiers would be different.

 

Captain Monster trying to calm down a crowd?  C'mon.  What wise player uses a PRE attack when situational modifiers are heavily stacked against him/her???

[mrinku]

2 hours ago, Surrealone said:

Captain Monster trying to calm down a crowd?  C'mon.  What wise player uses a PRE attack when situational modifiers are heavily stacked against him/her???

 

Who are these wise players and where do you find them?

 

And naturally no GM is going to put a PC in such an awkward situation for the general amusement of the group...

 

On a less flippant note, it's precisely because the situational modifiers can be against them that keeps abuse in check. PRE attacks are, after all free.

 

And we've all seen Spider-Man's bad rep rear its ugly head when he's trying to do positive PRE...

[Surrealone]

3 hours ago, mrinku said:

And we've all seen Spider-Man's bad rep rear its ugly head when he's trying to do positive PRE...

That's what happens with teenaged heroes, I suppose.  

[bluesguy]

In my campaigns, both heroic and superhero, players learn quickly that PRE attacks are great way to end a fight.  And if you have an amazing reputation and high PRE and make a really good persuasion roll then maybe you get this:

https://youtu.be/m-JdSzH3fc4?t=77