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Many 6th Edition villains too tough?


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NOTE: There are spoilers about the villains in question in this thread so be aware.

 

 

In the 'Book of the Destroyer', 'Champions Villains Volume 1: Master Villains', 'Champions Villains Volume 3: Solo Enemies', there are many villains posted, such as Dr. Destroyer, Firewing, Slug, Black Paladin, etc. The ones I just mentioned are just a few that I truly wonder if anyone uses as stated. Sure, you can take what was presented and modify it to fit your campaign but why are they at the power levels mentioned? Why are they throwing 30d6, 22d6, 20d6 attacks, etc.? Why have Black Paladin able to fight at DCV 21 in HTH combat? And on and on. These are monstrously, and I'll add, ridiculously powerful to be used.

 

Does anyone actually uses these villains as presented? I find it strange that these are the representations of what a beginning GM/Player new to the system is expected to come across. Even the 'VIPER:Coils of the Serpent' book had eye-popping Ripper and Oculon statistics to name a couple from there. I've heard there are campaigns out there that can actually handle this, but those are very rare based on the multitude of threads I've read through over the years. I would say that these books are adding the ultra/mega-powerful for those that want them, but the vast majority of campaigns simply will have to have the villains lowered or re-tooled to make them acceptable to most players.

 

What's your take?

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I did use Black Paladin in a game where he fought the entire team of superheroes.  He is nasty.  Characters got hurt.  Well until someone decided to pick up a semi truck and smash him with it.  I think that stunned him and buried him under the wreckage.  The character then used semi's axle to beat him into oblivion.  This was after he had take a pedal pub full of people and lifted it up with a crane above a bunch of rebar that was sticking up and released the cable. The team saved the innocents of course.

 

I think the only thing I changed was turning his KA into normal attacks.  They were still very nasty but not quite as deadly.

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I have used those villains as presented, sometimes downgraded, and sometimes upgraded. Campaigns cover a wide range of power levels, either because a longstanding game group has risen to that class, or because the group just wants to run a story line on the order of a Justice League or Legion of Superheroes. I like villain compendia that support any of the styles of play one sees in the comics. For every official Champions villain like DD or Firewing, there's an Ambush or Lash or El Salto. Overall I'm quite satisfied with what the company has provided in terms of plug-and-play villainy.

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Since I haven't played in ages, I lost track of how much of what is considered "normal". But from my memories, 60 AP of power is "standard", 80-90 is an experienced villain, and 120 is Doctor Destroyer. Problem is, point inflation has made 60 AP look weak.

 

I do agree with Lord Lianden. Each of the three books have various point values (with the Mastermind book having the least variance, but your supposed to have them face there henchmen first).

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I have always thought it's ridiculous to have a Dr. Doom expy with 150-point suit based weaponry that eclipses the attacks of cosmic heavy hitters like Firewing and the Star Guard. Were I to run a game with him as a villain I'd probably drop his attack multipower down to 90 active points with an overload option that boosts up to 120 or so, and compensate by raising the Control Cost of his gadget pool to 150 for those occasions when he wants to build a giant laser cannon and carve his name into the moon.

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Many Hero gamers are munchkins that are quite capable of building characters that have incredible capacity for the points. At convention games that allow players to bring their own characters, I let them bring whateve they want and dal I h it by using the higher level characters from Champions Villains.  It works.

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I recall the Geodesics, way back when, seeming very lightweight, when I suspect they were intended as examples of beginning characters (too bad we had built our characters to the standard of the example villains in 1e Champions, rather than the standard of Crusader and Starburst, who were challenged by Ogre and a few bank robber henchmen).  Most early players seemed to take the likes of Pulsar and Dragonfly as starting PC power levels, rather than challenging opponents for a team of starting PCs.  Power creep started right out of the gate, really.

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On 1/29/2018 at 1:07 PM, Tech said:

Does anyone use those hi-end stated villains as written?

 

Yes, and I make sure the players know the gravity of the situation.  Having the villain take out an NPC with one shot is a good starter.  I've found that it gives players a chance to cut loose with their 'I only use this attack against really tough guys' attack, push powers with heroic effort, think creatively and use teamwork.  Don't forget to reward the PCs with extra XP for taking one of the Big Bads out.

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