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g3taso

Making the Most of Presence?

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I like Presence in 5e, and probably will like 6e later this spring. I have what I might call an optimization question, or more specifically an "optimization with style" question. I've heard people's thoughts about PRE attacks being super-powerful (usually with some ridiculous stat level), but that seems to be a DM issue than a game one. Here's my question, based on a 200-400pt game with Disadds and with Normal Characteristic Maxima:

 

When pushing beyond the attribute score of 20 into post-NCM territory, what are some ways to effectively limit the effect of PRE while maintaining or expanding a schtick? I guess I'm looking for cool "flavors" of PREsence to share.

 

For example, lets take a 20PRE character who is ready to become something more impressive. He might choose to buy +20PRE; Only With Leadership (-1), Req Persuasion roll (-1/2). This limits PRE to avoid the evil villain Intimidation schtick, making him more the dashing and charismatic commander who says "Get stuck in, soldiers! You wanna live forever?" as he leads his troops into the fray.

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2 hours ago, g3taso said:

For example, lets take a 20PRE character who is ready to become something more impressive. He might choose to buy +20PRE; Only With Leadership (-1), Req Persuasion roll (-1/2). This limits PRE to avoid the evil villain Intimidation schtick, making him more the dashing and charismatic commander who says "Get stuck in, soldiers! You wanna live forever?" as he leads his troops into the fray.

Leadership being a learnable, refineable skill ...why would you buy your example as PRE when levels with Interaction (i.e. Presence-based) skills make more sense?  I'm asking because the above looks like a cheesy way to try to shave costs...

 

Presence beyond the NCM ... taken with a For Defense Only [-1] limitation ... makes sense if you want someone who is 'unflappable' or 'calm, cool, and collected'.  There's also the Only To Resist Fear/Intimidation [-1] limitation if you want to do the 'fearless' thing without the person being someone awe-inspiring, himself.

 

Growth imparts +PRE (due to sheer size) ... so that's another reasonable angle by which one might exceed the 20 PRE NCM and have it make flavourful sense.

 

Another angle for bolstering PRE is to use Mental Illusions to create impressive illusions -- which is an interesting and flavourful way to stick to the 20 PRE NCM while still tossing around more than 4d6 of PRE attack.  (The Ultimate Mentalist covers the precise mechanics for how this is done.)

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I get what g3taso is trying to accomplish.  Effectively, he always wants to increase his PRE attack when inspiring others on a successful Persuasion roll (though I think Oratory would probably be better).  The question though is what kind of campaign is this?  Is it a supers campaign, where strange and mighty things can happen?  Or is this a gritty dark campaign where it's more grounded in reality.

 

If its supers, I have used presence in a variety of ways:

  • The mentally pushing of people is PRE costs end.
  • Marvel's Spiderwoman's Pheromones could also be considered a PRE attack (since men won't know they are being attacked when she asks them to do something).
  • Linked PRE to some action only to attack where the action is very Cthulhu-esque.

A grittier campaign, I think levels and skills are better suited.

 

Though I like to note: I allow players to use either EGO or PRE to defend and I generally don't allow the PRE attacks to go any higher than what people are rolling for damage.

 

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9 hours ago, dsatow said:

 

Though I like to note: I allow players to use either EGO or PRE to defend ...

 

 

At some point, in some edition of Hero... wasn't this the rule? That you could defend against a PRE attack with PRE or EGO, whichever was higher? I could be misremembering, but I've allowed that for years.

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1 hour ago, RDU Neil said:

 

At some point, in some edition of Hero... wasn't this the rule? That you could defend against a PRE attack with PRE or EGO, whichever was higher? I could be misremembering, but I've allowed that for years.

 

Its an optional rule IIRC, but it makes sense.

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On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:48 AM, RDU Neil said:

 

At some point, in some edition of Hero... wasn't this the rule? That you could defend against a PRE attack with PRE or EGO, whichever was higher? I could be misremembering, but I've allowed that for years.

IIRC, this was a 5th Edition rule.  6th Edition did away with it as evidenced by the PRESENCE ATTACK TABLE (6e2 p136) no longer having 'PRE or EGO' as it did in 5er (a la 5er p428).

 

That said, 6e goes on to say on 6e2 p136, "...there may be situations where GMs want to offer characters the option to use another Characteristic instead (or even require them to do so)." Hopefully that's not EVERY situation where there's a PRE attack (like it used to be in 5er), but to each GM his/her own.

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I like the concept of an evil Captain America-style villain. A natural leader who uses Pre (Offensive only -1, No combat effects -1) like Palpatine to convince others, to persuade, to seduce to the dark side. All for the greater good.

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