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Luthors Masterplan in Batman vs Superman


Christopher

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I am just rewatching the Extended Version of Batman vs Superman. And I have to say: Luthors plan is really damn good. It was a masterpiece 18+ months in the making. With lots of Contingencies prepared well ahead of time.

The core plan was simple: Give Batfleck the willingness (Guilt) and the means (Kryptonite) to kill Superman.

Public Outcry agaisnt Superman? Really just part of getting that Bomb into the Capitol.
Doomsday? What a happy conincidence!

Placing a Superman Call (throwing Lois of a building) and forcing Superman into the fight by capturing Martha? He would have prefered Lois had not figure that out.

Everything beyond that? Really just a optional improovement to the plot. If this was a Kickstarter Campaign, you would call those "Stretchgoals".

 

And all he really needed was to know "Bruce Wayne is Batman and Clark Kent is Superman". And the only Hickup was Lois Lane figuring out what was going on thanks to a stray bullet in her notebook and the "Suicide Bomber" having bought something to eat. So it was not quite as perfect as he wanted (Superman going after Batman of his own volition).

 

It started just after Man of Steel:
He infiltrated (or already had infiltrated as normal industrial Espioange) Wayne Enterprises to intercept a number of Wellfare checks to a certain Paraplegic (without Bruce Wayne knowing about it).

He was also actively looking for a big piece Kryptonite in teh wreck of the Kryptonian World Former. He had already found a small peice early on, but what he needed was a big piece. His plan was to "give" it to Batman with enough plausible deniability.

Finally he had placed KGBeast with a certain African Warlord. He also set up the women giving fake testimony during what was to come.

 

Once he found big enough Kryptonite, he knew it was time to strike:

He used KGBeast (or his own connections) to influence said African Warlord into accepting a Interview with Lois Lane.

KGBeast then "found" the CIA Tracking device in the Camera.

Betrayed the Warlord and his men. He burned the Corpses to make it appear as if Superman had heat-visioned them to death.

The apparent terror act resulted in opinions going agaisnt Superman.

 

Meanwhile in Gotham, Batman was "falling into the Abyss". This is not a new thing. It was mentioend was far back as Batman TAS. "I thank the heaven for any day you do not fall into it" - Alfred.

But after around 20 years of being Batman, loosing at least one Robin (possibly one becomming the new Joker), he was falling into it. Branding and torturing villains for information was how it showed.

Batman had gotten Luthors hints regarding the Kryptonite Shipment. It was already packed onto the Ship "White Portugese" at this point, only awaiting the allowance to be shipped in. Once again, KGBeast was integral to this part. He posed as leader of the Gotham Side Crime Syndicate that would "ferry in" the Kryptonite.

 

Luthor managed to trick that one Senator to giving him access to the Ship and Zods corpse, so he could get the literall fingerprint from him. His intetion was to learn as much as he could about the Universe to protect Earth. But he also could not get distracted by all those possibilities. So he intentionally choose not to go inside despite having the means until his "Batman v Superman" plan was on Autopilot.

The option to create Doomsday?  That was just a "happy side effect". It was never part of the Original Plan.

 

Getting Bruce and Klark to meet, was another master stroke:

Getting Bruce there? He had ordered KGBeast to allow Bruce to copy his phone. So the need to get into the house to hack the Computers was appearing.

He had also Invited Klark Kent specifically (via an obfuscation layer).

I am not sure he intended for Diana Prince to be there or not. It could have been intentional (leaking to her that he had the digital photograph in his "Meta Beings File") to see how the 3 would interact. If they would recognise one another, or were just 3 random Metabeings with no connection. It did not really mater that much in teh Grand scheme. Even after Diana stole the stolen Data, only Bruce had the means to decrypt it.

In any case Luthor leaked "Bruce Wayne is Batman" to Klark. I am note sure if the fire was part of the plan. Getting someone to start a fire someplace on the world during a celebration like day of the deadh would not have been hard for Luthor. But timing it properly would propably have been tricky. Does not really mater, Klark Kent would not make a big scene there.

 

That Senator Finch would not let the Kryptonite in was a minor hickup. I am uncertain if the "Paraplegig Suicide Bomber" was a original plan, a contignency plan or just a reserve asset for spontaneous adaptation. He definitely would have prefered doing it without something as crude as a giant explosion but the guy could have done his job just talking as well.

 

At the same time he hired someone to kill a Bat Branded guy via - you guessed it - KGBeast. And he send articles/photos detailing this to Klark Kent.

Batman already wanted to stop Superman. He wanted since Man of Steel. Batman had even lied about who/what the white Portugese was to Alfred and it was him trying to get his hands on Kryptonite the whole time. However while he was plannign to make the weapon, it was not certain he would use it too.

Getting Superman to wanting to stop batman was the hard part. I mean he always had the fallback plan of "taking Martha Hostage". But again, that was a cured tool.

 

Batmans first attempt at getting the Kryptonite failed, due to Superman delivering his Ultimatum. Lex seemed almost annoyed about it. But he just grabbed it after teh Suicide Bombing. No setback-

 

Luthor sending KGBeast to kill the African Witness was a minor setback too. It resulted in her confessing to Finch. Did not mater. KGBeast got her quickly after and finch died in the "Suicide Bombing". Luthors plan was to drive him firmly into the Edge of "killing Superman" by making it seem the Paraplegigc had suicide bombed hismelf to make a Statement.

Finch, Mercy, the Paraplegic. All were just "pawns Sacrifices" for Luthor. And they did not fully realise it until to late.

 

Lois never even got to mention that everyhing up to this was created by Luthor. It did not mater anymore after the suicide bombing. Until she realised this was part of Luthors plan too. While Lois did eventually get to that after being saved, it no longer mattered. KGBeast had Martha. Superman was forced into the fight - albeit via crude tool of coercion. And Batman was pretty much on Autopilot, asuming Superman was a inhuman danger and he was guilty off killing the Paraplegic.

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IMHO if you can't describe your master plan within one paragraph, it's unnecessarily convoluted. If it requires several key parties to be gullible or stupid, it's inherently flawed. And as an aside, if you have to persuade people to believe in and cooperate with you, acting psychotic won't help.

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2 hours ago, Cassandra said:

Why use special bullets at all?

They still had those in their guns. A perk of being Private Security for Lex Luthor while in a Wartorn country is having the best he can offer!

 

And it did not even disrupt the plan in the least. It allowed Lois to show us just how smart Luthor is. But it changed nothing relevantly (until they got to working together, maybe).

 

1 hour ago, Cassandra said:

Kryptonians who are centuries ahead of us only use Fingerprints to activate their technology.

That scoutship was about 10k years old. It was also only operating at about 37%.

And they use good old fashioend physical keys with their crests on it.

 

Luthor seemed to only need the fingerprints to get into the command room. From there it was the key wich granted him access. At no point was he refered to as "General Zod" by the ship.

 

1 hour ago, Cassandra said:

Why couldn't Superman tell Batman Luthor kidnapped his Mom?

He was not listening. I think letting him walk into two traps in a row would have been a obvious clue. The Superman wanted to pound him into submission.

And then they had started the fight with Kryptonite weaponry. Superman had to give it everything he got and he still almost died.

 

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

IMHO if you can't describe your master plan within one paragraph, it's unnecessarily convoluted. If it requires several key parties to be gullible or stupid, it's inherently flawed. And as an aside, if you have to persuade people to believe in and cooperate with you, acting psychotic won't help.

"I trick Batman into killing Superman." Seems a rather simple plan.

 

All he really needed was:

- Batfleck having Kryptonite weaponry

- Batfleck wanting to kill Superman

- Superman fighting Batfleck.

As I said, everything else was just a stretch goal or a intermediate goal.

 

As for Lex working with others: The only people he worked with were Mercy (wich he killed) and KGBeast (wich is a Mercenary, so as long as the money fits the psycho does not mater).

That senator? He literally offered to help him.

And well, Amanda Waller from JLU puts working with Luthor like this: "I knew he was a snake, but I still let him bite me!"

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I don't have a problem with Luthor's plan so much as I have a problem with this version of Batman.

 

Batman, the ultimate Code vs Killing character, deciding to kill someone who has debuted stopping an alien invasion and then spent the next 18 months flying around the world doing good deeds because "he could go bad." Then acting on the decision without having even met the man.  Even Waller would meet him and have "We're watching you conversation" before trying to sanction him.

 

Batman, the most prepared , best researcher in the history of comics, having no knowledge of any other meta-human's existence and having to steal the information from Luthor, a man who has not discovered any hero's Secret ID in 60 plus years on comics.

 

Batman, the ultimate stealth hero, who instead of tailing the Kryptonite to the warehouse and  sneaking in to steal it, initiates a running gun battle through a major city using 50-cal machine guns and missiles.

 

Batman, the world's greatest detective, not having a clue that someone was manipulating him or figuring out Luthor's plan faster than Lois did.

 

So yeah given this incompetent Batman, Luthor's plan has a chance to succeed but it still shouldn't. No way does one senator get Luthor access to the  Kryptonian ship without jumping through a lot of hoops and a background check from Hell which would probably show him as a risk. And even if he got access, he would never be allowed in without an escort or left unsupervised at any time. This is an actual alien spaceship that crashed to Earth as part of an invasion in a major metropolitan area. the security here would be so black,  light would warp near it.

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47 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

Batman, the ultimate Code vs Killing character, deciding to kill someone who has debuted stopping an alien invasion and then spent the next 18 months flying around the world doing good deeds because "he could go bad."

He only had decided to forge a Kryptonite weapon against Superman. You know, the normal "Contigency Plan" stuff:

 

The decision to actually use it to kill him right now only happened after the "Suicide Bombing". And some pretty bad dreams off a future. And a time travelling flash giving him a warning to "fear him!". Luthor did remark it was "easy" getting him to do it.

 

50 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

Then acting on the decision without having even met the man.

They had met twice before the decision was made. Once at Luthors place. Once when Superman gave him his Ultimatum.

And his Morals had been eroded by 20 years of fighting crime. "We always were Criminals, nothing has changed."

 

And being scared of superman turning bad is not a bad idea. Heck, that was the whole argument of Waller behind forming the suicide squad.

 

53 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

Batman, the most prepared , best researcher in the history of comics, having no knowledge of any other meta-human's existence and having to steal the information from Luthor, a man who has not discovered any hero's Secret ID in 60 plus years on comics.

Lex was the first one to even have the whole "Meta being" theory. And he was ridiculed for it by people who had the same data as him. It was basically "flat earth" or "hollow earth" theory stuff.

Batman tends to be too focussed on Gotham. Even just making a contingency against Superman was a odd case. But it has ample precedence in the Comics and Animated Series.

 

55 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

Batman, the ultimate stealth hero, who instead of tailing the Kryptonite to the warehouse and  sneaking in to steal it, initiates a running gun battle through a major city using 50-cal machine guns and missiles.

The Warehouse was heavier protected. If anything intercepting it in the largely abandoned Gotham harbor was less dangerous for everyone involved.

He had pretty much written off getting Kryptonite after the chase ha failed. Only the "Suicide bombing" resulted in him trying to get it anyway, with success.

Mind you, it is not like the Guards were told the plan. So they did their damndest to stop him.

 

55 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

Batman, the world's greatest detective, not having a clue that someone was manipulating him or figuring out Luthor's plan faster than Lois did.

He was to emotional to even consider it. And he did not have Lois initial information (the Bullet) or connections either. Apparently his Detective Skills got a bit rusty over 20 years of fighting Gotham crime. Or this version never quite had them.

 

59 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

No way does one senator get Luthor access to the  Kryptonian ship without jumping through a lot of hoops and a background check from Hell which would probably show him as a risk.

If the Senator could not have done that, why would Luther have wasted time talking with him?

He offered to help Lex.

This is Lex Luthor. He does not go down to anything below "Major" or "President" unless he has a really good reason for it.

 

And despite all this, Luthor still did not get the Kryptonite across the border. Wich was the one thing that actually matered for his plan. The whole ship deal? Yeah, that was just a bonus.

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22 minutes ago, Christopher said:

He only had decided to forge a Kryptonite weapon against Superman. You know, the normal "Contigency Plan" stuff:

 

The decision to actually use it to kill him right now only happened after the "Suicide Bombing". And some pretty bad dreams off a future. And a time travelling flash giving him a warning to "fear him!". Luthor did remark it was "easy" getting him to do it.

 

They had met twice before the decision was made. Once at Luthors place. Once when Superman gave him his Ultimatum.

And his Morals had been eroded by 20 years of fighting crime. "We always were Criminals, nothing has changed."

 

And being scared of superman turning bad is not a bad idea. Heck, that was the whole argument of Waller behind forming the suicide squad.

 

Lex was the first one to even have the whole "Meta being" theory. And he was ridiculed for it by people who had the same data as him. It was basically "flat earth" or "hollow earth" theory stuff.

Batman tends to be too focussed on Gotham. Even just making a contingency against Superman was a odd case. But it has ample precedence in the Comics and Animated Series.

 

The Warehouse was heavier protected. If anything intercepting it in the largely abandoned Gotham harbor was less dangerous for everyone involved.

He had pretty much written off getting Kryptonite after the chase ha failed. Only the "Suicide bombing" resulted in him trying to get it anyway, with success.

Mind you, it is not like the Guards were told the plan. So they did their damndest to stop him.

 

He was to emotional to even consider it. And he did not have Lois initial information (the Bullet) or connections either. Apparently his Detective Skills got a bit rusty over 20 years of fighting Gotham crime. Or this version never quite had them.

 

If the Senator could not have done that, why would Luther have wasted time talking with him?

He offered to help Lex.

This is Lex Luthor. He does not go down to anything below "Major" or "President" unless he has a really good reason for it.

 

And despite all this, Luthor still did not get the Kryptonite across the border. Wich was the one thing that actually matered for his plan. The whole ship deal? Yeah, that was just a bonus.

 

Ok, he made a contingency plan, why use it when anyone with Batman's supposed intelligence would know  Superman didn't cause the explosion. He was filmed flying in empty handed by every news organization in the world. Also Superman wouldn't need a bomb to kill a roomful of normal people and an explosion fits none of his powers profile. Nice deductive skills there Batman.

 

Hmm, Batman doesn't know who Superman is at Lex's party and Superman"s ultimatum came after he saw Batman cruise through a major metropolitan area at high speeds, firing machine guns and missiles so he could hijack a truck. Upon being stopped Batman does not explain but makes threats that anyone but Superman(and he should have) would have taken as a last straw and hauled his but off to jail for(Batman is actually wanted).

 

Yet Waller did not activate the Suicide Squad  until there was an actual threat to respond to, there were no preventive assassinations.

 

Batman ignoring the world outside Gotham was an acceptable thing until ya know that alien invasion thing 18 months before. I kinda think his priorities should have changed somewhat. And not only Luthor had more info on metas than Batman, Waller did also.

 

Safer for who? Not for the citizens of the city he fired off missiles and machine gun fire in. Maybe you mean the thugs he was shooting at or whose car he dragged at high speed and crashed? Do you seriously think planting a tracer and then following it wasn't a better option. 

 

Batman never loses control even in deconstructionist works like Miller's Dark Night or the Injustice games. 

 

The senator could get  Lex access but not at the level he needed to take bio-samples , remove artifacts(the key) or come and go unsupervised and unobserved.

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10 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Ok, he made a contingency plan, why use it when anyone with Batman's supposed intelligence would know  Superman didn't cause the explosion. He was filmed flying in empty handed by every news organization in the world. Also Superman wouldn't need a bomb to kill a roomful of normal people and an explosion fits none of his powers profile. Nice deductive skills there Batman.

Yes, he knew superman did not cause the Explosion. How did you ever think that was his motivation? That is too ludicrous to even respond to.

 

10 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Hmm, Batman doesn't know who Superman is at Lex's party and Superman"s ultimatum came after he saw Batman cruise through a major metropolitan area at high speeds, firing machine guns and missiles so he could hijack a truck. Upon being stopped Batman does not explain but makes threats that anyone but Superman(and he should have) would have taken as a last straw and hauled his but off to jail for(Batman is actually wanted).

Batman still did some good work. He stopped a human trafficing ring as a side note to trying to get the Kryptonite.

 

Also I want to see that explanation: "Do not worry about me shooting up this mostly abandoend Harbour. I just want to make a weapon against you, all powerfull alien that I do not tust."

 

10 hours ago, Grailknight said:

The senator could get  Lex access but not at the level he needed to take bio-samples , remove artifacts(the key) or come and go unsupervised and unobserved.

The key was behind a door they could not open. Just trying to use Zods actuall fingerprints (scraping them off his fingers) was apparently beyond them or they simply lacked the Knowledge of/access too Kryptonite

 

And again:

1. If the Senator could not have gotten him access, Lex Luthor would not have bothered talking with him. A lowly Senator is way below his attention.

2. The Ship was just a nice bonus. Doomsday? Totally unexpected!

He had access the moment the sneator gave it to him in Act 2. And he never even acted on having that access until the main plan (mostly Batman) was on Autopilot/had stolen the Kryptonite (Act 6 or so).

 

10 hours ago, Greywind said:

Far easier to get the checks at the receiving end rather than the sending end. They had been sent, intercepted, altered, returned.

But for optimal emotional impact, Bruce Wayne had to see them all at once.

Had he seen it at any earlier time, this manipulation would have been found out.

Hence the idea of using a already placed industrial Spy.

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2 hours ago, Christopher said:

Yes, he knew superman did not cause the Explosion. How did you ever think that was his motivation? That is too ludicrous to even respond to.

 

Batman still did some good work. He stopped a human trafficing ring as a side note to trying to get the Kryptonite.

 

Also I want to see that explanation: "Do not worry about me shooting up this mostly abandoend Harbour. I just want to make a weapon against you, all powerfull alien that I do not tust."

 

Hmm, I wonder how I linked the bombing and Batman's decision to kill Superman, Hmm, oh yeah it was from this:

14 hours ago, Christopher said:

He only had decided to forge a Kryptonite weapon against Superman. You know, the normal "Contigency Plan" stuff:

 

The decision to actually use it to kill him right now only happened after the "Suicide Bombing". And some pretty bad dreams off a future. And a time travelling flash giving him a warning to "fear him!". Luthor did remark it was "easy" getting him to do it.

 

Pretty ludicrous huh?

 

I am not disputing that a senator  wouldn't be able to get Lex a tour of the ship as a consultation. I'm arguing that Lex  wouldn't have clearance to come and go as he wills at all hours of the night, and definitely wouldn't be allowed to take samples or perform experiments without accompanying guards, observers and documentation(  Case in point, Trump can't fill posts because his appointees can't pass background checks and this base requires a much higher classification).

 

 And do you really think that Lex would be the first and only person among the countries best security people , researchers and scientific consultants to think of holding Zod's fingerprints to an obvious scanner? In 18 months , no one but Lex is smart enough to think of this? 

 

You're also assuming the government doesn't have cameras , motion sensors and trip wires set up to monitor if the door was opened or guards posted to see if anything comes out of inaccessible parts of the ship. This is an alien spaceship surrounded by a base on its crash site in the middle of New York City , it would set new standards for security and be overseen by someone at least as hard as Waller. Lex may have gotten the fingerprints(assuming the giant idiot ball somehow applied) with permission and under the eyes of observers and armed guards but as soon as that door opened, he'd have been shown off the base with a "Thank you sir, you've been an invaluable aide , We'll call you in if we need further insights."  

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6 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

mm, I wonder how I linked the bombing and Batman's decision to kill Superman, Hmm, oh yeah it was from this:

That is not what you said. You said:

14 hours ago, Grailknight said:

[Superman] He was filmed flying in empty handed by every news organization in the world. Also Superman wouldn't need a bomb to kill a roomful of normal people and an explosion fits none of his powers profile. Nice deductive skills there Batman.

Asuming that Superman caused the Explosion is the Ludicrous part. Why did you ever write that?

 

1 hour ago, Greywind said:

Bruce asked if Wally was getting the checks. He asked his employee that question when Wally claims in the video that he's left with "nothing". The employee discovers that Wally had been sending the checks back. If I recall right, at that point, Bruce wants to know why he hadn't been informed.

The answer was "I do not know". Wich is about what any decent Industrial Spy would say if their actions were found out. Also anyone that screwed up normally.

 

Then the Capitol Exploded.

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33 minutes ago, Christopher said:

That is not what you said. You said:

Asuming that Superman caused the Explosion is the Ludicrous part. Why did you ever write that?

 

I didn't . I said that Batman, the World's Greatest Detective, should know he didn't. It was your suggestion that the bomb was what caused Batman to implement his kill Superman plan. And then I repeated your quote while citing how it came into the conversation .

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48 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

I said that Batman, the World's Greatest Detective, should know he didn't.

Batman did know that.

Indeed I have no idea how you got to such a creative missreading of waht I said, unless you somehow did not watch the movie.

 

48 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

It was your suggestion that the bomb was what caused Batman to implement his kill Superman plan.

Yes, the Explosion was what caused Batman to implement his "kill Superman" plan. Lex mentioned it while talking to Batman.

Nope, at no point did he asume Superman caused it.

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1 hour ago, Netzilla said:

So why would Batman figure he has to kill Superman for something that he knows Supes didn't do?

Superman is a danger to Humanity. His Powerlevel is infinite. That is why he is the Boyscout. Anything beyond that and he becomes the single most scary being on the planet.

That is why Batman always carries Kryptonite. That is why in many itterations, Superman gave the Kryptonite to Batman:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KryptoniteRing

That is how well established a fact that is!

 

This was not your usuall "CvK" Batman. He was not Flashpoint Pradox Batman, but he had become cruel (Alfreds words!). This was one who had fought Gotham Crime for 2 decades. He has lost at least one Robin (there is a decent argument the Leeto Joker used to be a Robin).

He is cynical. He has seen more good people be corrupted by Gotham city then you had hot dates. He is seeing himself being corrupted. Alfred is mentioning he is being corrupted. And he had a grudge on superman from killing a lot of people in Waynecorps Metropolis residence.

Batman is propably the only human that can kill him even with Kryptonite Weapons. And he is getting to old to do it much later.

 

Batman was already falling into the Abyss:

 

And they were at odds about how to fight Crime, what crime to fight and what not one way or the other.

 

This was just the situation before Luthor did anything.

 

Then Lex orchestrated Framing for a bunch of killings in Africa. Even if it would have been justified as self defense (defense of Lois Lane), public opinion was going against him. And it certainly put the danger of superman back into everyones head.

Then there was an explosion in the Capitol. By all appearances a Paraplegic Suicide Bombed the Capitol, fully knowing he could not do anything to hurt Superman.

There was everything needed to sell this: Bomb building Implement in his Apparment. All signs he was unmhinged in his Apparment. The checks comming back with explicit writing that Bruce had failed.*

A Paraplegic that used to be part of the "Wayne Company Family".

A Paraplegic that had been seemingly drive mad being crippeled by Superman.

And THEN he got a warning from a Time Travelling Flash to "fear Superman".

 

The chance that Superman was turning bad? More then 1%.

People he saw turn bad over two decade or so? More then 100.

The Window in wich Batman could still defeat Superman? Closing due to age.

Burces Crusade against Gotham Crime? Having had no real effect for 20 years.

 

Lex knew exactly wich of Batman/Bruce Waynes Buttons to press. He remarked it was "surprsingly easy".

 

*The only minor hickup was taht Lois noted the fresh food. And even that did not amount to anything, because she was capture before she could tell superman.

 

1 hour ago, Cassandra said:

Even if the plan made sense it was undercut by Jesse Eisenberg's performance as Lex Luthor.

I guess we have to agree to disagree here.

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9 hours ago, Christopher said:

Superman is a danger to Humanity. His Powerlevel is infinite. That is why he is the Boyscout. Anything beyond that and he becomes the single most scary being on the planet.

That is why Batman always carries Kryptonite. That is why in many itterations, Superman gave the Kryptonite to Batman:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KryptoniteRing

That is how well established a fact that is!

 

This was not your usuall "CvK" Batman. He was not Flashpoint Pradox Batman, but he had become cruel (Alfreds words!). This was one who had fought Gotham Crime for 2 decades. He has lost at least one Robin (there is a decent argument the Leeto Joker used to be a Robin).

He is cynical. He has seen more good people be corrupted by Gotham city then you had hot dates. He is seeing himself being corrupted. Alfred is mentioning he is being corrupted. And he had a grudge on superman from killing a lot of people in Waynecorps Metropolis residence.

Batman is propably the only human that can kill him even with Kryptonite Weapons. And he is getting to old to do it much later.

 

Batman was already falling into the Abyss:

 

And they were at odds about how to fight Crime, what crime to fight and what not one way or the other.

 

This was just the situation before Luthor did anything.

 

Then Lex orchestrated Framing for a bunch of killings in Africa. Even if it would have been justified as self defense (defense of Lois Lane), public opinion was going against him. And it certainly put the danger of superman back into everyones head.

Then there was an explosion in the Capitol. By all appearances a Paraplegic Suicide Bombed the Capitol, fully knowing he could not do anything to hurt Superman.

There was everything needed to sell this: Bomb building Implement in his Apparment. All signs he was unmhinged in his Apparment. The checks comming back with explicit writing that Bruce had failed.*

A Paraplegic that used to be part of the "Wayne Company Family".

A Paraplegic that had been seemingly drive mad being crippeled by Superman.

And THEN he got a warning from a Time Travelling Flash to "fear Superman".

 

The chance that Superman was turning bad? More then 1%.

People he saw turn bad over two decade or so? More then 100.

The Window in wich Batman could still defeat Superman? Closing due to age.

Burces Crusade against Gotham Crime? Having had no real effect for 20 years.

 

Lex knew exactly wich of Batman/Bruce Waynes Buttons to press. He remarked it was "surprsingly easy".

 

*The only minor hickup was taht Lois noted the fresh food. And even that did not amount to anything, because she was capture before she could tell superman.

 

And all of these things are failings of this  piss-poor version of the Batman character, not an affirmation of Luthor's genius and not an indication of Superman provoking Batman.

 

Snyder's Batman has fallen into despair,  and I get that he is exhausted from years of fighting a crusade that he feels himself losing but that will never excuse the murderous tendencies he shows in this movie.  Batman has endured the seeming deaths of Jason and Stephanie and the maiming of Barbara without going on a murder spree. Miller's Batman retired rather than become a killer in a world ruled by villains. Even in his come back, in his 50's, he never resorted to killing as an option in Dark Knight 1 or 2. He's not a killer in the Injustice Universe or the Justice Lords version either.

 

It all comes down to failure of the DC writers to understand Batman. The character the comics portray is a combination of James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, Bruce Lee and Bond's tech guy Q. Bale had Bond and  Lee but punted the brainy stuff. Affleck also has Bond and Lee without Holmes or Q. Bale's Batman is led by the nose in all 3 movies and the only thing he personally outwits is Scarecrow's fear toxin. Affleck is shown with some Holmes in him in Suicide Squad but his lack in BvS  is telling  throughout and the only real way the plot advances.

 

I also despise the trope that has the hero or the authorities go bad and their first target is another hero because "they're a bigger possible threat than the villains". It always ends in hard feelings between heroes after the error is realized and our confused hero being nicer to the villains after seeing the error of his ways. Heroes go after threats, they shouldn't attack those who aren't but could be. Otherwise you'd have to take out everyone with access to nukes and shut down all the CDC's of the world for fear on a rogue action by someone who's been law-abiding for years.

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On 2/20/2018 at 2:24 PM, Christopher said:

They still had those in their guns. A perk of being Private Security for Lex Luthor while in a Wartorn country is having the best he can offer!

 

And it did not even disrupt the plan in the least. It allowed Lois to show us just how smart Luthor is. But it changed nothing relevantly (until they got to working together, maybe).

 

That scoutship was about 10k years old. It was also only operating at about 37%.

And they use good old fashioend physical keys with their crests on it.

 

Luthor seemed to only need the fingerprints to get into the command room. From there it was the key wich granted him access. At no point was he refered to as "General Zod" by the ship.

 

He was not listening. I think letting him walk into two traps in a row would have been a obvious clue. The Superman wanted to pound him into submission.

And then they had started the fight with Kryptonite weaponry. Superman had to give it everything he got and he still almost died.

 

"I trick Batman into killing Superman." Seems a rather simple plan.

 

All he really needed was:

- Batfleck having Kryptonite weaponry

- Batfleck wanting to kill Superman

- Superman fighting Batfleck.

As I said, everything else was just a stretch goal or a intermediate goal.

 

As for Lex working with others: The only people he worked with were Mercy (wich he killed) and KGBeast (wich is a Mercenary, so as long as the money fits the psycho does not mater).

That senator? He literally offered to help him.

And well, Amanda Waller from JLU puts working with Luthor like this: "I knew he was a snake, but I still let him bite me!"

 

What?  Superman couldn't have just said "Luthor's kidnapped my Mom."

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