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19 minutes ago, dsatow said:

Or Lois could have a triggered images sound that she plants on Supes when she kisses him.  When she screams, the sound images trigger allow Supes to hear the cry for help. :)

 

 

Or fly the other way if Lois is more annoying then usual (Silver Age Lois Lane Comics).

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On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 1:26 PM, Cassandra said:


Combat Luck is a way of reducing damage when the character is hit.  It doesn't increase the DCV.

 

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:46 PM, massey said:

 

Didn't you just point out over in the Lex Luthor thread that Lois Lane has the power "Summon: Superman" defined as screaming for help?   The special effect of a power is whatever you want it to be.

 

mechanical roll hits Slippery Character's DCV.  Mechanical damage roll is 42 STUN, 12 BOD.  Slippery character has 5 PD and ED, non-resistant, and +21 Combat Luck, so he takes 16 STUN and 0 BOD. 

 

In-game, Slippery character dodges to one side, and is struck only a glancing blow.

 

The exact same hit and damage against Tough Guy, who has the same defenses, but his +21 is Resistant PD and ED, not Combat Luck, in-game is represented by a grunt from Tough Guy after he takes the hit full-on.  "That the best you got?"

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The only problem I can see between DCV guy and Combat Luck guy would be the same problem as Block defined as a Dodge. 99.9999% there isn’t an issue however if you are blocking someone who has an active Damage shield, the DS still goes off.(This ruling is in Fred, 6th of course could have changed it) Which depending on that SFX, should be considered before hand.

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4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

 

mechanical roll hits Slippery Character's DCV.  Mechanical damage roll is 42 STUN, 12 BOD.  Slippery character has 5 PD and ED, non-resistant, and +21 Combat Luck, so he takes 16 STUN and 0 BOD. 

 

 

We call that "The A-Team" effect.

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Want a character that can take a beating and keep ticking like the energizer bunny.  Buy up his recovery and maybe even buy him regeneration.

 

You can even have an Aid that goes off on a 0 phase trigger defined as When my character is Stunned that automatically heals Stun, provides Endurance and even Body.  Not that point costly that you can also be Firelord the Great Flame Thrower or Tommy Chong Fist of Iron Fury as well.  Just my opinion.

Edited by indy523
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22 hours ago, indy523 said:

Want a character that can take a beating and keep ticking like the energizer bunny.  Buy up his recovery and maybe even buy him regeneration.

 

You can even have an Aid that goes off on a 0 phase trigger defined as When my character is Stunned that automatically heals Stun, provides Endurance and even Body.  Not that point costly that you can also be Firelord the Great Flame Thrower or Tommy Chong Fist of Iron Fury as well.  Just my opinion.

 

Better than aid with a trigger, buy absorption to Stun.

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20 hours ago, dsatow said:

 

Better than aid with a trigger, buy absorption to Stun.

 

In what way is that better?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I have a palindromedary, which is better than nothing. In fact, nothing's better than a palindromedary! Except a paradox, and now I have that too.

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On March 4, 2018 at 3:06 PM, indy523 said:

Want a character that can take a beating and keep ticking like the energizer bunny.  Buy up his recovery and maybe even buy him regeneration.

 

You can even have an Aid that goes off on a 0 phase trigger defined as When my character is Stunned that automatically heals Stun, provides Endurance and even Body.  Not that point costly that you can also be Firelord the Great Flame Thrower or Tommy Chong Fist of Iron Fury as well.  Just my opinion.

 

What kind of attacks is he up against?  What is his Archetype?

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5 hours ago, Lucius said:

 

In what way is that better?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I have a palindromedary, which is better than nothing. In fact, nothing's better than a palindromedary! Except a paradox, and now I have that too.

 

  • Doesn't require trigger.
  • Has a better maximum amount gained mechanic.
  • Cheaper.

Ex:

Aid 3d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (45 Active Points)

maximum benefit: 18 pts

 

Absorption 18 BODY  (energy), Increased Maximum (x16 points) (+1) (36 Active Points)

maximum benefit: 288 pts

 

The only issue would be the attack would need to do Body.  Stun only attacks wouldn't be absorbed.

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Personally, I'd stick with the high characteristics, and maybe Regeneration.

 

Simpler.

 

Regeneration is a bit problematic, in that writing it on your character sheet is a direct invitation to the GM to do Body to your character. Just buying up the character's Body might not trigger that effect.

 

If you buy Regen and you don't take Body, you've wasted the points. The GM will make sure you haven't.

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12 hours ago, dsatow said:

Absorption 18 BODY  (energy), Increased Maximum (x16 points) (+1) (36 Active Points)

maximum benefit: 288 pts

Make it Persistent (+1/4) and take the Always On limitation (-1/2) .... such that this power could be activated at times when it might prove inconvenient ... and that 18 BODY w/ x16 increased maximum Absorption goes to 40 Active and 23 Real points.

 

i.e. Yet cheaper and more efficient...

 

Absorption's also particularly efficient when used with Expanded Effect.  Example:

-----

Absorption 10 BODY  (Physical, Boosts STR, DEX, EGO, PRE, OCV, SPD, REC, and END), Increased Maximum (x2 points) (+1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Expanded Effect (x8 Game Elements) (+3 1/2), Always On (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4)

 

The above is 50 Active and 28 real points ... to add 40 CP to 8 characteristics (max of 10 per hit that does BODY, halving rule, of course, applies to REC and END).  Note that it would have been even more efficient if I had stuck to non-defensive characteristics in order to avoid those that are subject to the halving rule, but I was being lazy...

 

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14 hours ago, Surrealone said:

Make it Persistent (+1/4) and take the Always On limitation (-1/2) .... such that this power could be activated at times when it might prove inconvenient ... and that 18 BODY w/ x16 increased maximum Absorption goes to 40 Active and 23 Real points.

 

i.e. Yet cheaper and more efficient...

 

Absorption's also particularly efficient when used with Expanded Effect.  Example:

-----

Absorption 10 BODY  (Physical, Boosts STR, DEX, EGO, PRE, OCV, SPD, REC, and END), Increased Maximum (x2 points) (+1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Expanded Effect (x8 Game Elements) (+3 1/2), Always On (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4)

 

The above is 50 Active and 28 real points ... to add 40 CP to 8 characteristics (max of 10 per hit that does BODY, halving rule, of course, applies to REC and END).  Note that it would have been even more efficient if I had stuck to non-defensive characteristics in order to avoid those that are subject to the halving rule, but I was being lazy...

 

 

I don't know how the absorption that would be always on be inconvenient especially after hearing a while ago that healing always on isn't a limitation.  I thought Absorption would be persistent, but looking it up I note its only listed as constant.

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2 hours ago, dsatow said:

 

I don't know how the absorption that would be always on be inconvenient especially after hearing a while ago that healing always on isn't a limitation.  I thought Absorption would be persistent, but looking it up I note its only listed as constant.

I'm happy to point out what I believed (erroneously, it seems) to be obvious per RAW:

  • Absorption has SFX unless bought with IPE (which isn't in the build I put forth) ... Inobvious SFX, but perceivable, detectable, possibly even track-able SFX, nonetheless.

Thus, the obvious (per how SFX work under RAW) potential inconveniences entail taking damage that causes Absorption to give someone away when it'd be a problem.  i.e. It can ruin use of Acting, Disguise, Stealth, Shadowing, and the like by a character using them if Absorption occurs at a bad time.  Perhaps the character is a mutant ... in a world that fears them ... and his/her Absorption being triggered at the wrong time can out him/her.  Or perhaps the character's signature ability is his/her Absorption and one of his/her Hunteds is monitoring for signs of that ability (say, in London, where everything in public is on camera) when heroic or vigilante things keep happening to the local crime groups.  As another example, say the special effect of the Absorption entails something like sweating profusely (due to heat build-up during Absorption?) ... or shedding a lot of hair as the skin thickens (when absorbing Body directly to Body).  In each such case, what you have (based on SFX) is the presence of DNA at the scene where the Absorption took place ... well after the character has left ... DNA that can confirm the hero/vigilante with the Absorption power was there, and also potentially allow him/her to be tracked by tracking scent that is discriminatory (e.g. a common  bloodhound or other trained dog ... or even a paranormal with the appropriate ability).

Then there are less obvious inconveniences.  Chief among these is surgical care ... of someone who absorbs to BODY. In such a case, an incision is made into our hero to perform surgery ... only to have the incision heal up due to Absorption of the BODY damage ... to the character's BODY.  This results in a difficult (if not impossible) patient for surgeries.... making third-party, real-world medical care a very real problem (because you cut again, and it heals again) ... unless the rate of intentional damage done (to open the body for surgery ... by doing BODY) outpaces the rate of Absorption ... without doing more damage than the actual surgery is meant to fix.  (That's quite a delicate balance -- in a hospital unfamiliar with people who have this problem; most would stop treatment, but for those who tried to outpace, they'd risk doing more harm than good to the character!)

Regarding the comparison to Healing:

That was a bogus comparison because Healing is an Instant Power which requires an Attack Action. This, alone, precludes it from being rendered Always On ... unless the GM happens to dispense with that bit of RAW (i.e. GM chooses to require no Attack Action for, say, Self-Only Healing), in which case it's on the GM who made that House Rule to figure out a resolution to any/all problems (such as someone trying to make Healing a Constant, Persistent, and Always On Power) that result from his/her House Rule on the matter.  Also, because Absorption can now behave as a defense if purchased that way, it absolutely should be able to be Persistent and Always On (just like any other Resistant Defense) if appropriate to the character and SFX.  The surgery example, above, becomes an even bigger inconvenience if the Absorption is bought as a defense that's Always On ... because now it's tougher to make the incision!  (You might need a cutting laser instead of a scalpel ... and how many hospitals have those around???)

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3 hours ago, Surrealone said:

I'm happy to point out what I believed (erroneously, it seems) to be obvious per RAW:

  • Absorption has SFX unless bought with IPE (which isn't in the build I put forth) ... Inobvious SFX, but perceivable, detectable, possibly even track-able SFX, nonetheless.

Thus, the obvious (per how SFX work under RAW) potential inconveniences entail taking damage that causes Absorption to give someone away when it'd be a problem.  i.e. It can ruin use of Acting, Disguise, Stealth, Shadowing, and the like by a character using them if Absorption occurs at a bad time.  Perhaps the character is a mutant ... in a world that fears them ... and his/her Absorption being triggered at the wrong time can out him/her.  Or perhaps the character's signature ability is his/her Absorption and one of his/her Hunteds is monitoring for signs of that ability (say, in London, where everything in public is on camera) when heroic or vigilante things keep happening to the local crime groups.  As another example, say the special effect of the Absorption entails something like sweating profusely (due to heat build-up during Absorption?) ... or shedding a lot of hair as the skin thickens (when absorbing Body directly to Body).  In each such case, what you have (based on SFX) is the presence of DNA at the scene where the Absorption took place ... well after the character has left ... DNA that can confirm the hero/vigilante with the Absorption power was there, and also potentially allow him/her to be tracked by tracking scent that is discriminatory (e.g. a common  bloodhound or other trained dog ... or even a paranormal with the appropriate ability).

Then there are less obvious inconveniences.  Chief among these is surgical care ... of someone who absorbs to BODY. In such a case, an incision is made into our hero to perform surgery ... only to have the incision heal up due to Absorption of the BODY damage ... to the character's BODY.  This results in a difficult (if not impossible) patient for surgeries.... making third-party, real-world medical care a very real problem (because you cut again, and it heals again) ... unless the rate of intentional damage done (to open the body for surgery ... by doing BODY) outpaces the rate of Absorption ... without doing more damage than the actual surgery is meant to fix.  (That's quite a delicate balance -- in a hospital unfamiliar with people who have this problem; most would stop treatment, but for those who tried to outpace, they'd risk doing more harm than good to the character!)

Regarding the comparison to Healing:

That was a bogus comparison because Healing is an Instant Power which requires an Attack Action. This, alone, precludes it from being rendered Always On ... unless the GM happens to dispense with that bit of RAW (i.e. GM chooses to require no Attack Action for, say, Self-Only Healing), in which case it's on the GM who made that House Rule to figure out a resolution to any/all problems (such as someone trying to make Healing a Constant, Persistent, and Always On Power) that result from his/her House Rule on the matter.  Also, because Absorption can now behave as a defense if purchased that way, it absolutely should be able to be Persistent and Always On (just like any other Resistant Defense) if appropriate to the character and SFX.  The surgery example, above, becomes an even bigger inconvenience if the Absorption is bought as a defense that's Always On ... because now it's tougher to make the incision!  (You might need a cutting laser instead of a scalpel ... and how many hospitals have those around???)

 

I'm not saying I disagree, but I distinctly remember this argument that healing, 0 end, constant, always on was argued as not a limitation for always on.  The reasoning went something like, except for a few minor borderline cases, for the most part, in day to day life one doesn't take body and in 99% of the cases where you do take Body, you want the power on.  So the amount of hindrance of the always on limitation doesn't justify the value of a -1/4 limitation (they were arguing it was a -0 limitation).  Another example would be (at the time of the argument) a character having the Armor power as always on.

 

Again, I am not disagreeing with you, it just that there was arguments about whether always on was a valid -1/4 limitation for powers which effectively heal you.  Personally, I think if the GM can and will penalize you for it, it's a limitation and the more they penalize you for it, the bigger the limitation it should be.  As an example, I can think at least one devious way an always on healing would be bad thanks to Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight.

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5 hours ago, dsatow said:

 

I'm not saying I disagree, but I distinctly remember this argument that healing, 0 end, constant, always on was argued as not a limitation for always on.  The reasoning went something like, except for a few minor borderline cases, for the most part, in day to day life one doesn't take body and in 99% of the cases where you do take Body, you want the power on.  So the amount of hindrance of the always on limitation doesn't justify the value of a -1/4 limitation (they were arguing it was a -0 limitation).  Another example would be (at the time of the argument) a character having the Armor power as always on.

 

Again, I am not disagreeing with you, it just that there was arguments about whether always on was a valid -1/4 limitation for powers which effectively heal you.  Personally, I think if the GM can and will penalize you for it, it's a limitation and the more they penalize you for it, the bigger the limitation it should be.  As an example, I can think at least one devious way an always on healing would be bad thanks to Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight.

Again, the comparison to Healing is inappropriate.  This time it's because BODY doesn't have to be taken ... for Absorption to work.  i.e. Whether the BODY done by the attack is taken ... or bounces off the defender's defenses ... is completely immaterial to whether the defender can Absorb.  Thus, arguments about wanting it on when BODY is taken are simply moot when dealing with Absorption, because you don't need to take BODY to Absorb. 

 

This is per 6e1 p165:

To use Absorption, a character must be hit by, or otherwise affected by, the type of phenomena he can Absorb (physical or energy). He doesn’t necessarily have to take damage from it, but he has to be hit/affected by it.

 

And this is also per 6e1 p165:

Absorption only works against attacks or forces that cause BODY damage (this includes Normal Damage, Killing Damage, AVADs and other attacks with the Does BODY Advantage, and so forth).


Might I suggest you avoid thinking of Absorption as comparable to Healing?  They really are apples versus oranges.  Do you think people only build Absorption powers for restorative purposes, or something?  I ask because Absorption might not be going to STUN/BODY; instead one might be Absorbing to STR (guy gets stronger when hit) ... or PRE (because golly he just soaked a pile of dmg) -- meaning the Absorption behavior in such cases isn't repairing anything, at all, in which case trying to think of it like Healing is way off base.  (Aid would be closer, but even that's got issues as a fair comparison, since it, too, requires an Attack Action to use and is, thus, Phase-based ... while Absorption does not, and is, thus available for use every Segment, passively, while active.)

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2 hours ago, Surrealone said:

Again, the comparison to Healing is inappropriate.  This time it's because BODY doesn't have to be taken ... for Absorption to work.  i.e. Whether the BODY done by the attack is taken ... or bounces off the defender's defenses ... is completely immaterial to whether the defender can Absorb.  Thus, arguments about wanting it on when BODY is taken are simply moot when dealing with Absorption, because you don't need to take BODY to Absorb. 

 

This is per 6e1 p165:

To use Absorption, a character must be hit by, or otherwise affected by, the type of phenomena he can Absorb (physical or energy). He doesn’t necessarily have to take damage from it, but he has to be hit/affected by it.

 

And this is also per 6e1 p165:

Absorption only works against attacks or forces that cause BODY damage (this includes Normal Damage, Killing Damage, AVADs and other attacks with the Does BODY Advantage, and so forth).


Might I suggest you avoid thinking of Absorption as comparable to Healing?  They really are apples versus oranges.  Do you think people only build Absorption powers for restorative purposes, or something?  I ask because Absorption might not be going to STUN/BODY; instead one might be Absorbing to STR (guy gets stronger when hit) ... or PRE (because golly he just soaked a pile of dmg) -- meaning the Absorption behavior in such cases isn't repairing anything, at all, in which case trying to think of it like Healing is way off base.  (Aid would be closer, but even that's got issues as a fair comparison, since it, too, requires an Attack Action to use and is, thus, Phase-based ... while Absorption does not, and is, thus available for use every Segment, passively, while active.)

 

First, I am not saying the character has to lose Body, but the attack must do Body to the character.  Any attack or event which has enough force to do Body and Stun (again not lose) would be a significant event.

 

Using strength as a measurement: a 3 strength would do 1/2d6 normal damage, the minimum die that can do Body.  A 3 strength would be at a level of force of power to lift 83 lbs(38kg) off the ground.  Few events in normal day to day life exert this amount of power against the human Body.  And this event would only have a 33% chance of doing Body (again not lost but subjected to the target).  And yes, this example ignores the possibility that an event could be a killing attack, such as getting accidentally cut by an object or could be of greater force like falling flat on your face after being tripped, but again, unless you are really clumsy (and if you are, I offer my sympathies) these do not happen with regularity.

 

Second, I am not even saying it has to be only healing (though I will admit, I was using healing as an example mainly because that was where the always on argument was).  Only the fact that the limitation may be considered by GMs as not worth -1/4 limitation due to how limited the situations will be.  It does not even have to be always on as a limitation.  A limitation such as "Not in a vacuum" might not be worth a -1/4 limitation in a roaring 1920s game and could be worth a -1 limitation in a space opera game.

 

Third, any power to power comparison will be like comparing apples to oranges because they are different powers.  Again, I just used healing because it was the origination of the always on argument way back then.

 

Fourth, I am agreeing with you, that I would consider always on an appropriate limitation.  I was on the side that thought always on for most powers would warrant a -1/4 limitation.  My original comment was mostly on the grounds that its not intrinsically obvious how absorption would warrant a -1/4 limitation.  I only wanted to note that some GMs would have a problem with it and mark it as a -0 limitation.

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On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:11 PM, dsatow said:

 

First, I am not saying the character has to lose Body, but the attack must do Body to the character.  Any attack or event which has enough force to do Body and Stun (again not lose) would be a significant event.

 

Using strength as a measurement: a 3 strength would do 1/2d6 normal damage, the minimum die that can do Body.  A 3 strength would be at a level of force of power to lift 83 lbs(38kg) off the ground.  Few events in normal day to day life exert this amount of power against the human Body.  And this event would only have a 33% chance of doing Body (again not lost but subjected to the target).  And yes, this example ignores the possibility that an event could be a killing attack, such as getting accidentally cut by an object or could be of greater force like falling flat on your face after being tripped, but again, unless you are really clumsy (and if you are, I offer my sympathies) these do not happen with regularity.

 

Second, I am not even saying it has to be only healing (though I will admit, I was using healing as an example mainly because that was where the always on argument was).  Only the fact that the limitation may be considered by GMs as not worth -1/4 limitation due to how limited the situations will be.  It does not even have to be always on as a limitation.  A limitation such as "Not in a vacuum" might not be worth a -1/4 limitation in a roaring 1920s game and could be worth a -1 limitation in a space opera game.

 

Third, any power to power comparison will be like comparing apples to oranges because they are different powers.  Again, I just used healing because it was the origination of the always on argument way back then.

 

Fourth, I am agreeing with you, that I would consider always on an appropriate limitation.  I was on the side that thought always on for most powers would warrant a -1/4 limitation.  My original comment was mostly on the grounds that its not intrinsically obvious how absorption would warrant a -1/4 limitation.  I only wanted to note that some GMs would have a problem with it and mark it as a -0 limitation.

It was the Healing comparisons with which I was struggling ... and I hopefully did a good job of explaining why.  And yes, I did note earlier in the thread that you agreed there was, indeed, valid limitation with Always On.

As to how a GM values that limitation (-1/2) vs (-1/4) ... that's up to the GM ... and I don't really have a dog in that fight, as GMs will do what GMs do.

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The Flash has low-level Regeneration (SFX: accelerated healing), so he tends to recovery BODY quickly.  Cinematically, I suspect that most of the time he's simply Stunned ... or suffers Knockout to a level between 0 and -10 STUN, such that he gets to take Recoveries (from being Stunned ... or from unconsciousness) on his usual Phases.

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8 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Perhaps Flash has a variation of “you can’t kill me” instead of extra Body to stave off Death he has extra Stun as to not go below -10 Stun.

 

Plus he has the writers on his side.

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