Christopher R Taylor Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 As Steve Long points out, area effect telekinesis does the same thing to all targets in its area at the same time: Quote For example, he must “punch” all of them, or Grab all of them, or Shove all of them; he can’t Grab some targets while “punching” others. This remains true even if the Area Of Effect is Selective or Nonselective. So how would you build a power which does multiple different things to targets in an area? Say, tentacles that grab some, squeeze some, disarm some, and throw some around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 I'd use Multiple Attack ... to Grab those who need to be grabbed ... and squeeze some that are already grabbed ... and disarm (i..e grab the gun and take it; not the 'Disarm' maneuver) some who need to be disarmed. i.e. No need to build a power for this, just use an existing maneuver. Yup, it's going to cost a lot of END to do lots of things with TK (unless you bought Reduced END) ... and yes, the more things you do the tougher it'll be to make all of them 'stick' ... especially if you're actually grabbing (and, therefore suffering grab penalties ... instead of using an Entangle whose SFX are a telekinetic grab). But that's how it should be, IMHO. RDU Neil and Hyper-Man 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: As Steve Long points out, area effect telekinesis does the same thing to all targets in its area at the same time: So how would you build a power which does multiple different things to targets in an area? Say, tentacles that grab some, squeeze some, disarm some, and throw some around? Telekinesis with Fine Manipulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 I would consider a custom version of Extra Limbs applied to TK. Hugh Neilson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Extra STR and Stretching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 The more I think about it the better approach may be to replace Selective with Accurate and 0 End and then use the Multiple Attack rules (the 6e version of Sweep for hth and ranged). That would allow separate attack actions vs a 3DCV +2/# of attacks after the first in a single Phase. Hugh Neilson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cowan Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 maybe use the 5 point adder to buy 2x the power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Is this thread inspired by Damian Darke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 55 minutes ago, Tom Cowan said: maybe use the 5 point adder to buy 2x the power Do you mean the Equipment Doubling rule? Even just buying multiple instances of TK will not accomplish the stated goal of performing simultaneous but different actions with TK. That seems like something that would require either Multiple Attack, Combined Attack or just extra limited SPD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cowan Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 35 minutes ago, Hyper-Man said: Do you mean the Equipment Doubling rule? Even just buying multiple instances of TK will not accomplish the stated goal of performing simultaneous but different actions with TK. That seems like something that would require either Multiple Attack, Combined Attack or just extra limited SPD. Combined Attack plus Doubling was my thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Quote Telekinesis with Fine Manipulation. Would that work, though? I mean its still equally affecting all parts with the same attack, it would just able to do it to very specific and targeted areas like push all the buttons in the area. Quote Is this thread inspired by Damian Darke? No idea who that is, I was just thinking of a necromancer summoning skeletal arms or tentacles or something, all acting randomly and independently. That kind of thing. It was inspired by Dsatow's question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsatow Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said: Would that work, though? I mean its still equally affecting all parts with the same attack, it would just able to do it to very specific and targeted areas like push all the buttons in the area. No idea who that is, I was just thinking of a necromancer summoning skeletal arms or tentacles or something, all acting randomly and independently. That kind of thing. It was inspired by Dsatow's question. Which was inspired by a possible villain for my current campaign Blackbeard, a Medusa type from Marvel's Inhumans but male and only manipulates his big beard. Based on Steve Longs answer, I was thinking of possible solutions. Summon Living Hair no range. Not a great solution since the hair could be knocked out. Multiple attacker maneuver with lots of levels only to combat the multiple attacker penalty. Multiple area of effect selective powers. Fairly costly, but each AoE could do its own thing and I just don't see Blackbeard doing more than two or three things at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, dsatow said: Multiple attacker maneuver with lots of levels only to combat the multiple attacker penalty. Reminder: Per 6e2 p77, "Unless the GM rules otherwise, characters cannot buy Combat Skill Levels specifically with Multiple Attack." Obviously the GM should probably not be ruling otherwise for his villains unless he's doing the same for players. To avoid the problem, entirely, just buy combat skill levels with the things that'll be used during Multiple Attack ... OR buy OCV and/or DCV taken with the Only When Using Multiple Attack (-1ish, perhaps?) limitation. Hyper-Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsatow Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, Surrealone said: Reminder: Per 6e2 p77, "Unless the GM rules otherwise, characters cannot buy Combat Skill Levels specifically with Multiple Attack." Obviously the GM should probably not be ruling otherwise for his villains unless he's doing the same for players. To avoid the problem, entirely, just buy combat skill levels with the things that'll be used during Multiple Attack ... OR buy OCV and/or DCV taken with the Only When Using Multiple Attack (-1ish, perhaps?) limitation. Yeah, was actually thinking of OCV with a limitation rather than PSL or 2-3pt combat levels which is what I think the rule is referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, dsatow said: Yeah, was actually thinking of OCV with a limitation rather than PSL or 2-3pt combat levels which is what I think the rule is referring to. Agreed. And don't forget DCV suffers, too. You might want to look at the Rapid Attack and Defensive Attack skills if Multiple Attack will be heavily used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 if your living hair takes no stun, it might fit better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Generally speaking, area effect attacks aren't going to suffer much from multiple power attack penalties, particularly if you buy the "accurate selective" option from the Advanced Player Guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: Generally speaking, area effect attacks aren't going to suffer much from multiple power attack penalties, particularly if you buy the "accurate selective" option from the Advanced Player Guide. True, but you don't NEED to buy the Telekinesis with AoE to do multiple things to multiple targets ... if you're using Multiple Attack to simulate that effect. Now, if you want to reduce your TK strength in order to add AoE ... then Multiple Attack with that ... such that you remain within whatever limits are set for the campaign -- by all means. That, however, is likely not the route I'd go for TK and or Entangle (whose SFX is a Telekinetic hold) intended to be used with Multiple Attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Christoper R Taylor, have you considered building that the way a hydra monster is built? Namely, duplication, cannot recombine. Each head of a hydra can act independently. Although expensive, bought this way, you could have a hero/villain who could attack/grab/throw/whatever/etc at the same time (with the same SPD assumed.) I'll warn you: it's powerful. I tested it on a monster that a superteam met. Very effective. Oh, and no combat penalties adding together either. Hugh Neilson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Its an option, to be certain. You'd get the same sort of effect with the bonus of it being naturally continuous and something players could kill to break away from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trechriron10 Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Whenever I read a thread like this, I feel like there should be a poll afterwards. You know, with all 8 suggested approaches and then get a pulse of which one HERO fans like the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 What about a percentage type of duplication? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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