zslane Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 This reminds me of Terminator 2 in which the scene in the warehouse where they patch up Arnie was originally much longer, but Cameron cut it down significantly because even though the scene was a good piece of character interaction, it completely ruined the momentum of the story. He was willing to sacrifice otherwise excellent footage in service to a better cinematic experience. Unnecessary fluff is still unnecessary fluff, even if it is well conceived and shot. All directors (and producers) should be so ruthless towards their footage. As to whether further Thanos character development should be considered fluff or not is a matter of conjecture and opinion, I guess. Seems to me that if Marvel really wanted to explore this villain in more depth, they had the chance to do so for years and never really took advantage of it. Stuffing it all into one Avengers movie is not the way to compensate for that, IMO. Christopher R Taylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Russo Brothers Q & A Some good bits and inside details about the movie, particularly about Hulk v Thanos and Stormbreaker's abilities. Bazza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Hulk vs Thanos was the worst fight sequence in any Marvel movie to date. It was so blatantly two CGI figures with no real sense of power or the incredible strength being displayed. It just looks like they tussle a little (causing little actual damage to their environment) and then Hulk goes to sleep RDU Neil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 And I completely disagree with you. I was a little surprised at the extent to which it was realistic, but I found the directness and brutality of it refreshing (and much less CGI-looking than a lot of other cinematic super-battles). It was far from a "little tussle," particularly when Thanos started wailing on Hulk. His every blow looked and sounded vicious and punishing, particularly since we're not used to seeing Hulk manhandled like that. Hulk has been accustomed to overwhelming his opponents with brute force, and I liked how outclassed Hulk was when fighting someone in his strength league with actual combat training and experience. That's consistent with how MCU Hulk has been portrayed when pitted against Thor and Abomination. Thanos didn't need to destroy much of the environment -- his blows were going exactly where he wanted them to. Lawnmower Boy, Armory and Jagged 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Yeah here's my problem with it: when Thor and Hulk fought, they destroyed the arena. When Thanos and Hulk fought, it was like they were against a painted background. It doesn't matter if you're hitting where you want to, its a problem of knockback and shoving around. The Hulk casually destroys whatever he touches (remember the quinjet in Thor 3?). THere was zero sense of strength or power in the blows, it was just punches. It felt completely disappointing, a huge letdown. There was no emotional impact, no response by the hulk, no face shots of him going "wow this guy hits hard" or a sense of concern or even that he noticed being hit. Then suddenly he laid down and didn't get back up. It was absolutely terrible. Let me explain a bit more. This isn't Bruce Lee fighting Chuck Norris. This isn't a boxing movie. This is a Superhero movie with what are essentially gods fighting each other. When Thanos and the Hulk fight it should be epic, even if its brief. Every single hit should give a massive sense of the unspeakable power being delivered, rather than just two computer generated cartoons bopping each other. Glass should break nearby with the shockwaves of these punches. You should get character moments where the Hulk goes "oh crap" not just fight fight fight lay down. It was a critical scene to establish how powerful Thanos was and instead it just made the Hulk look weak. Pattern Ghost and zslane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted December 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Agree with both LL & Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 The scene in question: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted March 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2019 Still a good movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I had forgotten how lame that Hulk vs Thanos fight scene was. Pattern Ghost and Christopher R Taylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 11/30/2018 at 7:01 PM, Christopher R Taylor said: Yeah here's my problem with it: when Thor and Hulk fought, they destroyed the arena. When Thanos and Hulk fought, it was like they were against a painted background. It doesn't matter if you're hitting where you want to, its a problem of knockback and shoving around. The Hulk casually destroys whatever he touches (remember the quinjet in Thor 3?). THere was zero sense of strength or power in the blows, it was just punches. It felt completely disappointing, a huge letdown. There was no emotional impact, no response by the hulk, no face shots of him going "wow this guy hits hard" or a sense of concern or even that he noticed being hit. Then suddenly he laid down and didn't get back up. It was absolutely terrible. Let me explain a bit more. This isn't Bruce Lee fighting Chuck Norris. This isn't a boxing movie. This is a Superhero movie with what are essentially gods fighting each other. When Thanos and the Hulk fight it should be epic, even if its brief. Every single hit should give a massive sense of the unspeakable power being delivered, rather than just two computer generated cartoons bopping each other. Glass should break nearby with the shockwaves of these punches. You should get character moments where the Hulk goes "oh crap" not just fight fight fight lay down. It was a critical scene to establish how powerful Thanos was and instead it just made the Hulk look weak. Yes, yes and yes. I've found that Marvel has really dropped considerably since Avengers (the first movie) in doing super-strength well. Every blow from Thanos and the hulk should have had concussive blasts knocking others around. Every shot should have been an area effect attack to those around it. They've turned so many "super punches" into regular punches that just happen to hurt tough guys. The whole fight vs. Thanos on Titan was the same. It felt like Thanos was just some big, brawny lug. One of the best ways to show real power, is that the side-effects of that power are practically attacks in and of themselves, and that normal stuff gets casually trashed as a by-product. They just don't do that well any more... where like Ant-Man and the Wasp did it better than Infinity War or Captain Marvel. (The photon blast vs. juke box really pissed me off... 1) she first a photon blast that clearly has impact mass and heat about six inches from Fury and it doesn't scorch or singe him, but has enough impact to cave in the machine... oh, and 2) they just casually laugh off blowing up the juke box and no one takes issue with it? A separate problem, but exactly the kind of stupid show-off scene that Marvel has never stooped to, but for some reason decided taking Captain Marvel back 20 plus years in terms of action movie sophistication was thought to be a good idea.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yeah, you lost me there. I'll give you Thanos v Hulk (perhaps they've built up some serious knockback resistance?) being disappointing to some, but the other fights in IW are the best I've ever seen, and the Titan battle is at the top of that. All of my buddies and most folk on the Interwebz rave about the Titan fight. IMO it was amazing, particularly when Strange cuts loose. The Russo's know their comic book fighting. I think the directing is the key and combat for Civil War, Ragnarok and Spider-Man was also pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Starlord said: Yeah, you lost me there. I'll give you Thanos v Hulk (perhaps they've built up some serious knockback resistance?) being disappointing to some, but the other fights in IW are the best I've ever seen, and the Titan battle is at the top of that. All of my buddies and most folk on the Interwebz rave about the Titan fight. IMO it was amazing, particularly when Strange cuts loose. The Russo's know their comic book fighting. I think the directing is the key and combat for Civil War, Ragnarok and Spider-Man was also pretty good. Civil War, Ragnarok and Spider-Man were quite good. Infinity War was a let down. Ragnarok managed some real, rock-em-sock em stuff that was the right level of over-the-top... while Spider-Man and Civil War do stand up well (but in most cases, that is because they do more traditional fight scenes "turned up a notch" i.e. the stairwell fight scene or the tunnel car motorcycle chase scene, which are both genius). Infinity War and Captain Marvel were major let-downs. Too CGI and plastic an lacking any grounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 One of the Infinity War conspiracy theories is that Loki used illusions to save the lives of most of the Asgardians then switched places with Banner. Banner never turned into the Hulk, instead Loki replaced him and took a light beating in his place while looking like the Hulk. Thanos could have really cut loose on "the Hulk" but saw no reason to since he was trashing the Hulk anyway. Loki remained looking like Banner all through the parts of the movie where Banner was using the Hulk-buster armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I think most of the fights in Infinity War were perfectly acceptable. For instance, the degree of collateral damage in NY when Ebony Maw came to claim the Time stone from Dr. Strange was suitably "superheroic" in scale. I can't find it in my heart to hold the lack of same in the brief Hulk vs. Thanos tussle against the Russos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yeah so much was great in Infinity War that I'm willing to give them a pass on that one quick fight. I figure they were rampaging around in an Asgardian ship -- maybe it has really high Def and Body internally. Absolute best fight choreography of any superhero movie is still Winter Soldier though. RDU Neil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, RDU Neil said: Civil War, Ragnarok and Spider-Man ... more traditional fight scenes "turned up a notch" i.e. the stairwell fight scene or the tunnel car motorcycle chase scene, which are both genius). There's something in the tunnel scene that still really bothers me. Bucky, Cap, and Panther are all running really fast. Cap is a super solder, cool. Panther drank vibranium juice, cool. But Bucky just has a robot arm - how can he outrun a car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 My understanding was he's been super-soldiered as well via Arnim Zola's experimentation. Armory, RDU Neil, wcw43921 and 3 others 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Right. Just like the other five in the Winter Soldier program who were put into stasis because they were incredibly dangerous and impossible to control. RDU Neil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 Oh, thanks. I thought the blue-super-juice-packs were just for the other winter soldiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 6 hours ago, massey said: Absolute best fight choreography of any superhero movie is still Winter Soldier though. Truth... the bridge fight is the best thing Marvel has ever done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 Before we get started...does anyone want to get out? - Steve Rogers, always a gentleman. L. Marcus, Hermit, massey and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted March 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 Starlord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Because it belongs here as well... zslane and Starlord 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Quote I had forgotten how lame that Hulk vs Thanos fight scene was. I was incredibly disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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