Avengers Infinity War with spoilers

[Bazza]

Nebula survived likely as due to original Infinity Guantlet story. 

 

Rhoady survived, likely because he is a Phase One character. So, if this rationale is correct, then Clint is safe. 

 

Edit: Both phase one characters Fury & Hill ceased to exist, so who knows anymore? 

[RDU Neil]

Ok... I'm surprised none of you are pointing this out...

 

Thanos... take away his "personification of death" obsession, and give him and real and serious problem to which he takes a grand and psychopathic approach... but this makes no sense.

 

Thanos argues that the universe can't withstand unchecked life due to limited resources... and originally believes that wiping out half of all life just needs to happen to balance things out. Honestly, from a mortal and desperate POV, this could make sense.

 

BUT... then he goes on a quest to gain all the power to UTTERLY CHANGE REALITY however he wants... succeeds in gaining that power... and he still can't think of anything better to do that kill half of all life?  Oh... and never considers that half of all life will quickly double back to where it was before and keep going?

 

This whole concept suddenly makes no sense and Thanos' motivation is laughably stupid. I'm not saying that I wanted "lady Death" in the movie... that Starlin weirdness was quintessential '70s Marvel and can stay there... but they needed to give Thanos a more well thought out motivation, because once he got the stones, he could have just changed the rules of reality so life doesn't consume, or there are infinite resources, or whatever. He was omnipotent... and all he could think to do is kill half of everyone?

 

That and his killing of Gamora had zero impact. It lacked all verisimilitude that he actually cared for her. There was no development in that area, and in fact, any such scene was actually the opposite... psychologically torturing her at every instance.

 

The good Marvel movies leading up to this were about something... and more than comic book movies. Winter Soldier was about post 9-11 fear and control and was a classic political suspense thriller... Civil War was about the limits of friendship, repercussions of past acts, and was a great revenge flick... Black Panther was a Shakesperean tragedy about colonialism and isolationism, etc.

 

What was Infinity War about? Nothing, really. Just a guy trying to kill people and fights. As folks have pointed out, this was the "most comic booky" of all the Marvel movies... and that is why it fell flat. It wasn't ABOUT anything. It was all plot, zero story.

 

This was disappointing because Marvel has largely succeeded because they took comic book concepts and made actual movies with them... while DC fails because they just try to put comic books on the screen. The fact that Marvel was just building up to a DC movie... and it will require significant fan speculation and theory to explain why this movie was actually really good, instead of it being obvious... bleh.

[Starlord]

31 minutes ago, RDU Neil said:

Ok... I'm surprised none of you are pointing this out...

 

Thanos... take away his "personification of death" obsession, and give him and real and serious problem to which he takes a grand and psychopathic approach... but this makes no sense.

 

Thanos argues that the universe can't withstand unchecked life due to limited resources... and originally believes that wiping out half of all life just needs to happen to balance things out. Honestly, from a mortal and desperate POV, this could make sense.

 

BUT... then he goes on a quest to gain all the power to UTTERLY CHANGE REALITY however he wants... succeeds in gaining that power... and he still can't think of anything better to do that kill half of all life?  Oh... and never considers that half of all life will quickly double back to where it was before and keep going?

 

This whole concept suddenly makes no sense and Thanos' motivation is laughably stupid. I'm not saying that I wanted "lady Death" in the movie... that Starlin weirdness was quintessential '70s Marvel and can stay there... but they needed to give Thanos a more well thought out motivation, because once he got the stones, he could have just changed the rules of reality so life doesn't consume, or there are infinite resources, or whatever. He was omnipotent... and all he could think to do is kill half of everyone?

 

That and his killing of Gamora had zero impact. It lacked all verisimilitude that he actually cared for her. There was no development in that area, and in fact, any such scene was actually the opposite... psychologically torturing her at every instance.

 

 

Well, I disagree.  Break down most comic book villains' motivations with a deep dive in logic and you basically wouldn't have supervillains.  Why would anyone 'take over the world' when you can use influence and finances to gain all the power and dominance you want?  Why would low level villains rob banks when they could easily use their abilities or inventions legally to get seriously PAID.

 

Insanity.  Thanos is clearly damaged and insane.  He's obsessed with a universal fix to the problem that destroyed his planet and only by using a similar solution to the one he previously suggested (which was proven viable in his damaged mind when he 'saved' Gamorra's world).  The obsessed/insane Thanos can not possibly conceive of another solution, anymore than the Riddler can stop himself from giving away his plans with riddles.

 

Also, being loved by an obsessed psychopath usually results in psychological torture IMO.

 

The journey of Thanos in this movie resulted in the best and most complete Marvel villain to date.  Was it a perfect journey with no plot holes?  No, but it was pretty good IMO.

 

I don't know what to tell you if this movie didn't gut punch you a few times (Peter's disintegration at the end was painful for me and I wasn't sure I was even liking the new Spidey up to that point).

[RDU Neil]

17 minutes ago, Starlord said:

 

Well, I disagree.  Break down most comic book villains' motivations with a deep dive in logic and you basically wouldn't have supervillains.  Why would anyone 'take over the world' when you can use influence and finances to gain all the power and dominance you want?  Why would low level villains rob banks when they could easily use their abilities or inventions legally to get seriously PAID.

 

And I hate these things. Even as a kid, I kept thinking, "Why is Paste Pot Pete trying to rob the FF? He could just patent and sell his formula and be wealthy as hell? The best villains are the ones who use influence and finance to get all the power... kinda like our Cheeto-in-charge.

 

Old, dated comic clichés aside, a villain's motivation shouldn't depend on fan service handwaving, not in any modern context, and especially not in the context of Marvel movies, which have been WAY smarter than this, previously.

 

17 minutes ago, Starlord said:

Insanity.  Thanos is clearly damaged and insane.  He's obsessed with a universal fix to the problem that destroyed his planet and only by using a similar solution to the one he previously suggested (which was proven viable in his damaged mind when he 'saved' Gamorra's world).  The obsessed/insane Thanos can not possibly conceive of another solution, anymore than the Riddler can stop himself from giving away his plans with riddles.

 

But in no way did they demonstrate or convince that Thanos was insane. He was generally calm, with a reasonable goal... and not once did anyone confront him with his illogic and force some kind of moment where we see, either "Huh... I never thought of that... you are right, I can reach my goal in a more effective way without killing half of everyone," or a doubling down on his irrationality so we really see his nutso. They failed to show him being insane in anything other than failing logically. That doesn't resonate much. (In fact, barring omnipotence, regular, cyclical wiping out of populations in order to maintain long term viability is simply the natural progression, so there is nothing insane about that. If Thanos had indicated he was just gaining the power in order to enact the role of natural, cyclical population culler, well then I'd have felt a bit better about it.)

 

17 minutes ago, Starlord said:

Also, being loved by an obsessed psychopath usually results in psychological torture IMO.

 

But that isn't love. Any acceptance of obsessive, brutal manipulation as a display of "love" is inherently flawed, and a cosmic force that is supposed to protect a great power, but easily falls for "well, you THOUGHT you loved her, even though you were just the ultimate example of toxic masculinity and wouldn't know from love... so here's your ultimate power stone!" isn't much of a cosmic protection force. Those McGuffin moments of cosmic insight play a role in story telling where the character is forced to confront a dark truth about themselves... but in this case, Thanos was let off the hook. It was a chance to really make this a Thanos movie, where he is the main character and he gets some real character development (Brolin did his best, and it was almost a worthy role for him)... but they dropped the ball, big time.

 

17 minutes ago, Starlord said:

The journey of Thanos in this movie resulted in the best and most complete Marvel villain to date.  Was it a perfect journey with no plot holes?  No, but it was pretty good IMO.

 

In a movie that has zero thematic story, zero character development and is all plot... ANY plot holes undermine it. That is the problem with this kind of movie... you better be perfect in your plot, because that is all there is.

 

17 minutes ago, Starlord said:

I don't know what to tell you if this movie didn't gut punch you a few times (Peter's disintegration at the end was painful for me and I wasn't sure I was even liking the new Spidey up to that point).

 

It was such an obviously, heavy handed "ooooh... you didn't see this coming, did you?" moment... which I totally saw coming and no, it had zero emotional effect on me because there is no way they are going to keep these heroes dead. It was pointless spectacle. So all we are left with is fan service/speculation for next year. The Russo bros better come up with a twist that is so mind-blowingly amazing and that no one sees coming but makes perfect sense in retrospect, that doesn't rely on time travel changing events, or this all falls flat.

 

 

[BoloOfEarth]

2 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

And I hate these things. Even as a kid, I kept thinking, "Why is Paste Pot Pete trying to rob the FF? He could just patent and sell his formula and be wealthy as hell?

 

Amusingly enough, I read a short story years ago where Paste Pot Pete did market and sell his glue on late-night infomercials, under an assumed name.  I'll have to find the book it was in and re-read it to provide any details, but IIRC he was doing pretty well until he was recognized by a former associate (the Wizard?) who sicced the authorities on him. 

 

I also remember a brief aside in the comics where Peter Parker tried to sell his webbing formula, until the whole "breaks down after an hour" thing killed the deal.

 

 

[mattingly]

[Bazza]

Maybe Loki should have left the Tesseract to be 'defended' by Surtur. 

[massey]

12 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

Ok... I'm surprised none of you are pointing this out...

 

Thanos... take away his "personification of death" obsession, and give him and real and serious problem to which he takes a grand and psychopathic approach... but this makes no sense.

 

Thanos argues that the universe can't withstand unchecked life due to limited resources... and originally believes that wiping out half of all life just needs to happen to balance things out. Honestly, from a mortal and desperate POV, this could make sense.

 

BUT... then he goes on a quest to gain all the power to UTTERLY CHANGE REALITY however he wants... succeeds in gaining that power... and he still can't think of anything better to do that kill half of all life?  Oh... and never considers that half of all life will quickly double back to where it was before and keep going?

 

This whole concept suddenly makes no sense and Thanos' motivation is laughably stupid. I'm not saying that I wanted "lady Death" in the movie... that Starlin weirdness was quintessential '70s Marvel and can stay there... but they needed to give Thanos a more well thought out motivation, because once he got the stones, he could have just changed the rules of reality so life doesn't consume, or there are infinite resources, or whatever. He was omnipotent... and all he could think to do is kill half of everyone?

 

That and his killing of Gamora had zero impact. It lacked all verisimilitude that he actually cared for her. There was no development in that area, and in fact, any such scene was actually the opposite... psychologically torturing her at every instance.

 

The good Marvel movies leading up to this were about something... and more than comic book movies. Winter Soldier was about post 9-11 fear and control and was a classic political suspense thriller... Civil War was about the limits of friendship, repercussions of past acts, and was a great revenge flick... Black Panther was a Shakesperean tragedy about colonialism and isolationism, etc.

 

What was Infinity War about? Nothing, really. Just a guy trying to kill people and fights. As folks have pointed out, this was the "most comic booky" of all the Marvel movies... and that is why it fell flat. It wasn't ABOUT anything. It was all plot, zero story.

 

This was disappointing because Marvel has largely succeeded because they took comic book concepts and made actual movies with them... while DC fails because they just try to put comic books on the screen. The fact that Marvel was just building up to a DC movie... and it will require significant fan speculation and theory to explain why this movie was actually really good, instead of it being obvious... bleh.

 

 

I disagree.  The Infinity Stones in the movie are not the Infinity Gems of the comics.  Witness Thanos' hand after he snaps his fingers.  The gauntlet is a ruin.  Comic book Thanos with all the gems is the Supreme Being of that reality.  He becomes capital-G God.  As in "Let there be light" level power.  While the Movie Thanos with all the stones is very powerful, there's nothing to indicate that he's the same tier as his comic book counterpart.  Creating infinite resources may be beyond his power.  They never say that he achieves omnipotence.

[massey]

Really liked the movie.  I'm still processing it.  Just saw it after work today.

 

My prediction for bringing people back is that Cap and maybe Tony are going to have to sacrifice themselves.  What did they say in the movie?  The Soul Gem has a price.  One soul for another.  I don't think they're going to just be bringing everybody back with the Time Gem.  It's going to require somebody to give up their life.  I think it's Cap.  He'll get the gauntlet at the end, and make the conscious decision to undo everything Thanos did.  But he does it knowing that he'll die.  And he does it anyway, because he's Cap.

 

I also noticed that Vision takes on a gray look after he died.  I think they repair him, and now we get cold robotic gray Vision.

[Bazza]

 

[Bazza]

[BoloOfEarth]

1 hour ago, Bazza said:

 

That is a class act, IMO.

[Starlord]

Thor should've made a lightsaber.

[Bazza]

Maybe Tony can pass that lightsaber on to Shuri for improvement. 

[slikmar]

Ok, got back from seeing it and have read through on why I should have disliked it.

I did like it. I agree felt like Empire Strikes Back, thought that coming out of movie. I actually thought, especially as apparently quite a few people in the theater hadn't known about 2nd movie, that they shouldn't have made Spider-man one of the disintegrated. Yes, gut punch, but also when thinking about it, he is for sure the one character you know Marvel can't kill off. (saw the preview for Venom and all I can say is - still doesn't interest me, still hate the character, hope it's not actually in the Marvel Universe).

Loved the character interactions all the way around. Liked that they really boosted SW and Vision, since they don't have their own movie. Almost no one knew what the symbol at end of movie was, so may have been a mistake not to at least have had a preview of Captain Marvel before hand.

I agree, someone will have to sacrifice, probably Cap. They question becomes, at what point do they reset too. I really hoped to see a hint of Adam Warlock in the movie. Tom Holland is excellent at Spiderman's combat babble.

I agree they could have done more to demonstrate Thanos's madness, but I thought Brolin was excellent and gave him real emotion. The price for the Soul Stone wasn't whether others thought he loved something or even if that love was returned, but that he truly thought he loved something and it was a sacrifice. Even Mantis was reading mourning of Gamora in him.

[Cassandra]

On 4/30/2018 at 5:17 AM, Bazza said:

Nebula survived likely as due to original Infinity Guantlet story. 

 

Rhoady survived, likely because he is a Phase One character. So, if this rationale is correct, then Clint is safe. 

 

And she was saved by Doctor Who.

[Old Man]

18 hours ago, slikmar said:

Loved the character interactions all the way around. Liked that they really boosted SW and Vision, since they don't have their own movie. Almost no one knew what the symbol at end of movie was, so may have been a mistake not to at least have had a preview of Captain Marvel before hand.

 

Speaking of previews, did anyone else get an Incredibles 2 preview before IW?  Want.

[L. Marcus]

We saw it last night. I was greatly entertained! What little I have to complain about, is that some of the CGI felt underdone, and there weren't really enough places for one to regain one's breath. A very strong four outta five.

[mattingly]

You think Coulson turned to dust?

 

Killing Coulson doesn't work out so well for psycho space killers.

 

[Old Man]

I don't know if it works out so well for Coulson either, tbh.

[mattingly]

 

 

[mattingly]

Oops, meant to post that in Funny Pics, but it works here.

 

[mattingly]

[Bazza]

 

 

 

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

http://didthanoskill.me