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Avengers Infinity War with spoilers


Bazza

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I was spared by Thanos. 

 

Thanos, as portrayed in this movie, was an MORON!

 

Do you know how long it will take for the population to reach the same level it had before his "culling"?

 

50 years.

 

Even assuming he's right, all he's done is bought the universe an extra fifty fracking years!

 

Good job,   MORON!

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2 hours ago, Doc Shadow said:

And yes, I know it's the writers, producers, and directors, any of whom could have and should have pointed out the major flaw in this plan, that are really to blame.

 

Exactly. It completely lost me once it became clear there was nothing deeper to his plan... and the fact that it simply wouldn't work. As I posted before, they missed a perfect moment to have someone, anyone... someone quick witted and doesn't know when to keep their mouth shut (Spider-Man, Iron Man, Shuri, whoever) to just say just that. "Are yo crazy? Even if you do what you want, the population will rebound in fifty years. Maybe less? What does this gain you?"

 

Give Thanos a chance to confront whether he is REALLY trying to save the universe, or has just become obsessed with killing trillions in the name of balance. Let us see his cuckoo on full display.

 

That and that they so ham-fistedly tried to make Thanos some kind of sympathetic villain, and we were supposed to believe he actually loved Gamora (just so they could fridge another female character so a male character gets a dramatic story arc, which is traditionally a more DC move than Marvel) just pissed me off to no end.

 

Actualy, no... just disappointed me. What pisses me off is the masses of people actively calling this movie good, which requires a level of willful ignorance that I find appalling. Especially the critics. This is a movie that actually does fall back on all the tropes in such a way as to create a spectacle with no substance (as they tend to want to say about all comic book movies) yet they fail to actually call this one out.

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On 4/28/2018 at 1:04 PM, Armory said:

 

This was my thought exactly.

 

I really enjoyed it.  I think it might be the closest thing yet to a Marvel comic come alive on the screen.  I'm probably too close to it yet to see the flaws, we just returned from the theater, but right now it's pretty close to my favorite comic book movie.  I was surprised by the characters they chose to 'kill' (because we know they'll be back somehow).  I tried to avoid spoilers and speculation these past few months but I still managed to hear people talk about how Stark and Cap would die, if for no other reason than they thought the actors were done with the franchise.  Well, they were wrong, which just reinforces my opinion of the incessant geek speculation that precedes each of these movies.

 

It is an epic event film.  If I didn't have a lot on my plate to prepare for surgery on Tuesday I'd go see it again.  And again.

 

I've seen speculation that the characters who got derezzed are the ones who will all ultimately survive when the credits roll on Infinity War Part 2. The idea being that many of the characters left alive at the end of this film--Iron Man and Captain America, primarily--are, as has been said, on the downside of their contracts. (Evans is about done, and RDJ's contract was up several movies back but there's no guarantee he'll stick around.) So...MAYBE resurrecting the "dead" heroes (and the countless trillions all over the universe who died with them) will require a sacrifice by one or more of the survivors of THIS film. If Captain America or Iron Man have to die, doing so in order to save half the universe is not a bad way to go.

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Using the power of the Stones to create infinite resources, or some other such resolution, makes Thanos a sane, compassionate hero.  That equals no movie.  He's a villain with a somewhat-relatable motivation, but he's been unhinged by his decades-long obsession, as villains are wont to be.  If they'd turned every Marvel hero into a villain by having them try to stop a guy who wants to save the universe with rainbows and bottomless cookie jars it truly would've been stupid.  I envision a two-hour long committee meeting where Thanos gathers the Avengers to show them a Power Point presentation about how to stock all of reality's planets with endless fish and boundless forests.  Captain Planet:  The Movie.  Blech.

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I loved that Thor kept calling Rocket “Rabbit”. For some reason that never got old for me.

 

But where did he get his nifty new costume at the end? Did the dwarf just happen to have a backup Thor costume waiting for such an occasion? Or does he have tailoring skills in addition to his smithing skills that we’re not aware of?

 

They could really have used someone like Domino on Titan when they were trying to get the gauntlet off Thanos. It would have just happened to slip off his hand the moment she grabbed it.

 

I agree that his plan was all kind of futile and pointless. His notion of “restoring balance” is dumber than his desire to impress Lady Death in the comics. And now that he’s fulfilled his destiny, does he expect to just pass away like an old Jedi or something?

 

But you know, equally as dumb was how difficult it was for people to make the kind of choice that would save trillions of lives at the cost of a single life (I’m looking at you Gamora), or by doing someting really simple like not antagonizing Thanos until the gauntlet has been pulled off him. I think we have Quill to blame as much as anyone for the fact that Thanos was in a position to snap his fingers and wipe out half of all (intelligent?) life in the universe. I would also be inclined to similarly blame Dr. Strange for just handing over the Time stone to save Stark, but I prefer to believe that’s all part of the long-term plan to win in the end.

 

I am still not in love with the design of this Thanos. The proportions of his face are too human. I would have preferred something closer to the comic book version, where he is wide and squat, with eyes that are set fairly far apart and all glowy white, and a wide mouth with wide teeth. The MCU Thanos was just a tall purple-ish human, and I didn’t find to be terribly menacing or scary.

 

I like the idea that maybe Shuri managed to set up a protocol that allowed the Vision’s intelligence to upload entirely to the mind gem if it ever got pulled out of the socket. That would allow him to perhaps take control of the stones at a critical moment in the follow-up movie.

 

How did Fury know to signal Capt Marvel? I mean, how do you see people dissolving and automatically think, “It’s Thanos, time to call Capt Marvel!” Did he do that when the Chitauri invaded in 2012? Not that we know of. Why not? That was an invasion from Thanos’ forces; surely that qualifies as a call-Capt-Marvel moment more than seeing people randomly disintegrate. That end-credits scene just didn’t make any sense to me, though it was neat to see the shout-out.

 

As for Coulson, as far as we can tell, he and his team were not among those who were erased from existance. Nor was our new Graviton.

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4 hours ago, zslane said:

I loved that Thor kept calling Rocket “Rabbit”. For some reason that never got old for me.

 

But where did he get his nifty new costume at the end? Did the dwarf just happen to have a backup Thor costume waiting for such an occasion? Or does he have tailoring skills in addition to his smithing skills that we’re not aware of?

 

They could really have used someone like Domino on Titan when they were trying to get the gauntlet off Thanos. It would have just happened to slip off his hand the moment she grabbed it.

 

I agree that his plan was all kind of futile and pointless. His notion of “restoring balance” is dumber than his desire to impress Lady Death in the comics. And now that he’s fulfilled his destiny, does he expect to just pass away like an old Jedi or something? 

 

But you know, equally as dumb was how difficult it was for people to make the kind of choice that would save trillions of lives at the cost of a single life (I’m looking at you Gamora), or by doing someting really simple like not antagonizing Thanos until the gauntlet has been pulled off him. I think we have Quill to blame as much as anyone for the fact that Thanos was in a position to snap his fingers and wipe out half of all (intelligent?) life in the universe. I would also be inclined to similarly blame Dr. Strange for just handing over the Time stone to save Stark, but I prefer to believe that’s all part of the long-term plan to win in the end.

 

I am still not in love with the design of this Thanos. The proportions of his face are too human. I would have preferred something closer to the comic book version, where he is wide and squat, with eyes that are set fairly far apart and all glowy white, and a wide mouth with wide teeth. The MCU Thanos was just a tall purple-ish human, and I didn’t find to be terribly menacing or scary.

 

I like the idea that maybe Shuri managed to set up a protocol that allowed the Vision’s intelligence to upload entirely to the mind gem if it ever got pulled out of the socket. That would allow him to perhaps take control of the stones at a critical moment in the follow-up movie.

 

How did Fury know to signal Capt Marvel? I mean, how do you see people dissolving and automatically think, “It’s Thanos, time to call Capt Marvel!” Did he do that when the Chitauri invaded in 2012? Not that we know of. Why not? That was an invasion from Thanos’ forces; surely that qualifies as a call-Capt-Marvel moment more than seeing people randomly disintegrate. That end-credits scene just didn’t make any sense to me, though it was neat to see the shout-out.

 

As for Coulson, as far as we can tell, he and his team were not among those who were erased from existance. Nor was our new Graviton.

 

I have to note that his plan in gaining the stones wasn't to "impress" Lady Death. Death brings him back for the mission of killing off half the universe. He sees the stones the easiest way to accomplish this and...in typical Thanos fashion...sees it as a way to bring himself up to Death's level so he can be a worthy mate....as well as boosting his own personal power. In gaining omnipotence, he actually becomes many levels above her..and thus she is no longer worthy to be considered HIS equal. His frustration at obtaining ultimate power, but still not getting what he really wants...causes him to behave more irrationally as time goes on. Mephisto is the one that plants the seeds of "impressing Lady Death". 

 

I agree with the look of Thanos. I'd have preferred even the look from Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

Gamorra tries to kill herself, but Thanos uses the reality gem to get rid of her blade....so she's not entirely at fault. Quill though...yeah...totally a tool. On the other hand, humans behave irrationally all the time.

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Yes, humans behave irrationally all the time, but you'd think that when your own survival (not to mention the survival of half the universe) is at stake, a sobering clarity would take over. But in the MCU that never seems to happen, which is why if I were an inhabitant of the MCU, I probably wouldn't want the fate of the universe to be in the hands of a human. They are incapable of seeing--and/or remaining fixed upon--the (really) big picture. Not that Asgardians are much better, mind you. That's why the MCU really needs Adam Warlock. In his absence, however, I'd like to think maybe Vision could be entrusted with executing a plan to save the universe that required making decisions based on "a sound calculus" rather than selfish emotion, but we already saw how even his impartial judgment had started to become compromised by his affection for Wanda in the beginning of IW.

 

Oh, and while I agree that Hulk's refusal to "show up" was needlessly frustrating and too obviously contrived, I'm not sure it would have mattered much even if he had showed up. Thanos bitch-slapped Hulk into unconsciousness pretty effortlessly on board the Asgardian ship, and that was even before he had 5 out of the 6 Infinity stones.

 

Incidentally, I found it really implausible that Banner would be the one dumping all the conspicuously detailed knowledge of Thanos and his plans, the capabilities of the Infinity stones, etc. to the others. In the comics it was the Silver Surfer who had that role, and that made a lot more sense. The awkward transfer of this narrative responsibility to Banner was too obviously a result of the MCU having too few characters (especially of the "cosmic" variety) from which to choose a better messenger. This is not unlike how "Civil War" was really more like an internal team squabble rather than an ideological crisis that divided hundreds, if not thousands, of powered individuals on Earth, as it was in the comics. The events of MCU's Infinity War may technically cover the entire (cinematic) universe, but it is only affecting a relatively small number of characters, and this drastic narrowing of dramatic scope continues to make the MCU feel small and parochial.

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Addressing two points from zslane above, post. The one before Dr MID-Nite's. 

 

Infinity War Directors ‘Briefly’ Considered Marvel TV Characters

https://screenrant.com/infinity-war-russo-brothers-marvel-tv-characters/

 

Star-Lord Is The Worst Hero In Avengers: Infinity War

https://screenrant.com/avengers-infinity-war-star-lord-worst-character/

 

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1 hour ago, zslane said:

Yes, humans behave irrationally all the time, but you'd think that when your own survival (not to mention the survival of half the universe) is at stake, a sobering clarity would take over.

 

I know humans IRL who don't have that clarity.  Anyone with a smoking habit, for example.  Anyone whose violent tendencies got them into trouble, or jail.

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On 5/3/2018 at 5:45 AM, Doc Shadow said:

I was spared by Thanos. 

 

Thanos, as portrayed in this movie, was an MORON!

 

Do you know how long it will take for the population to reach the same level it had before his "culling"?

 

50 years.

 

Even assuming he's right, all he's done is bought the universe an extra fifty fracking years!

 

Good job,   MORON!

 

When populations start getting out of hand again, he just snaps his fingers again for another culling.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, rjcurrie said:

 

When populations start getting out of hand again, he just snaps his fingers again for another culling.

 

 

 

Again... if this had been stated in the movie, or alluded to, or addressed in some way.

 

My issue isn't that fans can come up with all kinds of explanations that might make sense, but that the movie itself fails to address clear implications of what was stated in the movie. Especially when it comes to the central tenant of the film.

 

They've clearly stated that this was like an episode of TV, where you are expected to have watched all the other movies, so we don't have to build in motivation and character development to the characters you've already seen... they just "show up" and you go with it because... you saw all the other movies. That means these characters are just set pieces, because Story is about character and development... so that means Thanos is the only real character in this movie. Everyone and everything moves around him, his motivations, actions, dramatic arc, etc.

 

So now, all critical attention needs to fall on that dramatic arc... so you better damn well make it compelling, believable and engaging. You can't leave major holes to assumptions. Any drama comes not from what Thanos is doing, but why... and how does it dramatically change throughout the arc. That is Story... because otherwise you simply have a string of scenes. In this case, they really failed in two major areas. First, his stated motivation is highly flawed, and it was never called out... by either a "That makes no sense! You must just be insane!" or "I have become death, savior of the universe... and will take the role of Life Culler!" or whatever. Second, his supposed emotional arc with Gamora, where they completely failed to convince that he had any true emotion or love for her... so that he pays a dramatic price. We only have his word that he cared, and a few tears, in the face of decades of emotional torture and galactic slaughter was supposed to make us empathize and connect with him? Worst of all, the universe as defined, agreed that his horrific behavior constituted "love", otherwise it wouldn't have coughed up the soul gem for him. If the MCU is the kind of place where the cosmic fundamentals believe the most misogynistic form of male control and manipulation of women, up to the point of sacrificing the woman for the man's gain, is "love"... well then I'm pretty sure I hope the entire universe gets wiped out, not just half of it... because that isn't a place that I care to have exist... even in fiction.

 

I'm really surprised that there aren't more negative reactions among the fandom that the main takeaway from Infinity War is that the MCU, at a fundamental, structural, cosmically conscious level is abhorrently and violently sexist.


Yay Marvel!

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4 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

 

 

They've clearly stated that this was like an episode of TV, where you are expected to have watched all the other movies, so we don't have to build in motivation and character development to the characters you've already seen... they just "show up" and you go with it because... you saw all the other movies. That means these characters are just set pieces, because Story is about character and development... so that means Thanos is the only real character in this movie. Everyone and everything moves around him, his motivations, actions, dramatic arc, etc.

 

 

Addressing this bit, for your perusal:

 

Avengers: Infinity War: How They Decided to Split Up the Characters
http://www.vulture.com/2018/04/avengers-infinity-war-how-they-decided-to-group-the-heroes.html

THOR: RAGNAROK BEGINS A THREE-MOVIE ARC FOR HULK
http://au.ign.com/articles/2017/10/11/thor-ragnarok-begins-a-three-movie-arc-for-hulk

Thanos Is the “Main Character” in ‘Avengers: Infinity War’ Says Kevin Feige
http://collider.com/avengers-infinity-war-thanos-main-character/
 

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