Preventing a vehicle from moving

[eepjr24]

I want to create a power that prevents (or at least significantly slows) vehicles ground movement for a period of about 5 minutes. Active points needs to be at or below 84, and it will have significant limitations applied to it, but I am not sure what the most appropriate way to go it (I seldom do much of anything with vehicles). SFX is a magic charm that is attached to the vehicle that interferes with the engine (so only combustion engines are affected).

 

What I came up with so far was a Suppress versus Vehicle Ground Movement. That might work but gets odd with high movement vehicles. Strength (TK?) to resist movement is another option but contested STR rolls seems clunky for it. Thoughts from the gallery?

[Tom Cowan]

Yes, suppress would work, or drain.  hmm call the spell 'drain the horse power?'

[tombrown803]

flight 1m, usable as attack

the vehicle is then off the ground and therefore ground movement won't work

 

[eepjr24]

41 minutes ago, tombrown803 said:

flight 1m, usable as attack

the vehicle is then off the ground and therefore ground movement won't work

 

 

As a GM I specifically don't allow only 1m of any movement (or less than 5 active points for the most part of any power) to be bought UAA. 5 is the minimum. So Flight 5m UAA (+1.25), 10 lift capacity doublings (+2.5), Uncontrolled (+.5) would be 26 Active, that does not seem too horrible.

 

Anyone else have other thoughts?

 

- E

[Lucius]

7 minutes ago, eepjr24 said:

 

As a GM I specifically don't allow only 1m of any movement (or less than 5 active points for the most part of any power) to be bought UAA. 5 is the minimum. So Flight 5m UAA (+1.25), 10 lift capacity doublings (+2.5), Uncontrolled (+.5) would be 26 Active, that does not seem too horrible.

 

Anyone else have other thoughts?

 

- E

 

Add Invisible Power Effects. So someone can't figure out that piling on more weight would get the vehicle moving by bringing it back in contact with the ground.

 

I'd probably still go with Drain.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says eepjr isn't looking for something to go with, but for something to NOT go with.

[Greywind]

[eepjr24]

40 minutes ago, Lucius said:

 

Add Invisible Power Effects. So someone can't figure out that piling on more weight would get the vehicle moving by bringing it back in contact with the ground.

 

I'd probably still go with Drain.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says eepjr isn't looking for something to go with, but for something to NOT go with.

Yeah, maybe. I guess I just think that drain is remarkably expensive for this application. Partly perhaps because vehicles are generally either equipment or bought with money, both of which can be gotten at an extreme discount when compared with drain. The character could accomplish the same basic effect by simply slashing the tires with an off the shelf knife or a removing the valve stem with a $2 tool you can buy almost anywhere. The drain would need around 16 dice of effect (160 AP) to reliably cancel out 50m of movement (just using a round number from the standard vehicles chart). 

 

Reasoning from effect I am starting to think this might be best modeled as an entangle. Cancelling out 50 STR (carry STR plus movement as STR) would reasonably be done for 65 AP (still a little expensive but not as bad) with a 5d6 Entangle, +6 PD (11 PD, 5 ED). Actually, I think I am going to have to post a rules question about that, I am not sure if lifting strength would apply versus an entangle?

 

- E

[Lucius]

10 hours ago, eepjr24 said:

Yeah, maybe. I guess I just think that drain is remarkably expensive for this application. Partly perhaps because vehicles are generally either equipment or bought with money, both of which can be gotten at an extreme discount when compared with drain. The character could accomplish the same basic effect by simply slashing the tires with an off the shelf knife or a removing the valve stem with a $2 tool you can buy almost anywhere. The drain would need around 16 dice of effect (160 AP) to reliably cancel out 50m of movement (just using a round number from the standard vehicles chart). 

 

Reasoning from effect I am starting to think this might be best modeled as an entangle. Cancelling out 50 STR (carry STR plus movement as STR) would reasonably be done for 65 AP (still a little expensive but not as bad) with a 5d6 Entangle, +6 PD (11 PD, 5 ED). Actually, I think I am going to have to post a rules question about that, I am not sure if lifting strength would apply versus an entangle?

 

- E

 

It doesn't help the Active Cost, but you can apply a Limitation "Only vs Internal Combustion Engines."

 

Entangle is not a bad idea, but bear in mind the required Advantages. It will have to be modified unless you're using an actual Web spell.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we use Entangle for off-label applications

[IndianaJoe3]

21 hours ago, eepjr24 said:

What I came up with so far was a Suppress versus Vehicle Ground Movement. That might work but gets odd with high movement vehicles. Strength (TK?) to resist movement is another option but contested STR rolls seems clunky for it. Thoughts from the gallery?

 

What is the problem you see with Drain?

[Cantriped]

19 hours ago, eepjr24 said:

 

As a GM I specifically don't allow only 1m of any movement (or less than 5 active points for the most part of any power) to be bought UAA. 5 is the minimum. So Flight 5m UAA (+1.25), 10 lift capacity doublings (+2.5), Uncontrolled (+.5) would be 26 Active, that does not seem too horrible.

 

Anyone else have other thoughts?

 

- E

You won't need the increased weight modifier for two reasons. The first is that UAA does not care about the mass of it's initial target (The vehicle), only extra carried mass is considered (Such as if the target is carrying another potential target)... Second, UAA grants the vehicle a flight power (and forces the vehicle to use it at your command). A vehicle with flight (or EDM or Teleportation) can automatically carry its passengers (As defined by it's lift capacity) without buying Increased Mass.

 

Other possible methods of preventing a vehicle from moving temporarially would include:

 

An IPE Entangle (with a reasonable susceptibility).

 

Suppressing all of the Vehicle's Body (A Vehicle with no effective BODY isn't functional). This method also disables built in weapons and such though too.

 

Likewise Suppressing it's Movement (or most of it) has much the same effect, but with fewer side effects.

 

You can also fairly easily Attack the wheels/treads of most ground vehicles seperately (the vehicle source books make wheels seperate Foci)

[eepjr24]

1 hour ago, Cantriped said:

You won't need the increased weight modifier for two reasons. The first is that UAA does not care about the mass of it's initial target (The vehicle), only extra carried mass is considered (Such as if the target is carrying another potential target)... Second, UAA grants the vehicle a flight power (and forces the vehicle to use it at your command). A vehicle with flight (or EDM or Teleportation) can automatically carry its passengers (As defined by it's lift capacity) without buying Increased Mass.

6E1, 355:

"Inanimate Targets
For powers intended to affect inanimate objects rather than living Recipients, assume that the base target object weighs up to 100 km. Objects heavier than that cannot be granted the power. For each additional ¼ Advantage, the Grantor doubles the mass of objects he can affect."

 

You can play as you indicated above but for me the RAW is pretty clear.

 

Quote

Other possible methods of preventing a vehicle from moving temporarially would include:

 

An IPE Entangle (with a reasonable susceptibility).

 

Suppressing all of the Vehicle's Body (A Vehicle with no effective BODY isn't functional). This method also disables built in weapons and such though too.

 

Likewise Suppressing it's Movement (or most of it) has much the same effect, but with fewer side effects.

 

You can also fairly easily Attack the wheels/treads of most ground vehicles seperately (the vehicle source books make wheels seperate Foci)

 

Not sure what you mean by "with a reasonable susceptibility"?

Suppress versus Body on vehicles I'd need to read up more on. Also, you have to deal with the doubling effect for defense powers, so you are looking at 120 AP for a reliable effect. Switching to Suppress STR might have possibilities, though. If it does not have enough lift capacity, it cannot more.

AP is the problem I have with movement suppression, even basic vehicles have a lot.

I mentioned the attacks above, but not really the route I am after.

 

- E

 

[eepjr24]

4 hours ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

What is the problem you see with Drain?

Primarily that it takes 160 AP to do it without doing something odd like "All or Nothing" combined with "Uncontrolled" or the like. For something that a common thug can accomplish with a 2 dollar tool.

 

- E

[theinfn8]

You could use Mind Control on the machine class of mind. Rules in APG, if it's a generic "car" it only has an EGO/INT equivalent of 6. 8 for a highly computerized one. Not accelerating is something a car is inclined to do, so you would need to beat, at worst, EGO+10. Add on advantages/limitations to fit your desire and you still aren't looking at anything particularly expensive points-wise to make a car "stay here".

[Lucius]

13 hours ago, eepjr24 said:

Primarily that it takes 160 AP to do it without doing something odd like "All or Nothing" combined with "Uncontrolled" or the like. For something that a common thug can accomplish with a 2 dollar tool.

 

- E

 

How about Summon: Common Thug with 2 Dollar Tool?
 

Lucius Alexander

 

Summon: Palindromedary with Tagline

[eepjr24]

1 hour ago, Lucius said:

 

How about Summon: Common Thug with 2 Dollar Tool?
 

Lucius Alexander

 

Summon: Palindromedary with Tagline

 

Maybe a Minor Transformation from Vehicle to Vehicle that won't start for 5 minutes. =P

 

- E

[dsatow]

On 4/30/2018 at 5:52 AM, eepjr24 said:

 

Maybe a Minor Transformation from Vehicle to Vehicle that won't start for 5 minutes. =P

 

- E

I was thinking along the same lines, but since most vehicles don't use end, just making the movement cost +1 end.  Giving the transform a partial effect, the vehicle sputters (partially transformed) and dies (Fully transformed).

 

I also dislike the UAA flight for a different reason.  It makes the vehicle more likely to be knocked around as flight increases knockback over ground movement.

 

The mind control is an interesting concept though.