VPP questions....

[Kefrem]

Ok ive decided to get back into champions. Bought the software...snagged the 6th edition, it seems however a few things have changed since I last played(4th edition) most notably with the VPP. I plan to run a mystic campaign and the vpp has always most endeared me to superheroic magic. the way I used to remember you needed the pool...then the control part of it then you need a control skill. Has this changed?

 

I'm having a /boggle moment can someone clear this up...I'm tryin to figure how to set It up in herodesigner. my fellow I'm working on has a vpp of 85 and I gave him a 42(or should it be 43 for half?) am I getting this correct?

 

also...how do slotted powers work again...I know in a standard multipower they get a huge discount but I'm not to clear on how your work them in a vpp. Do you portion out the vpp's pool points...like you could have 1 35pt power and another 45pt? etc?...man its been awhile since I did this, gonna a big and fast learning curve again..my gf wants to play badly lol

[Steve Long]

I just moved this post here from Rules Questions. Carry on, Herophiles!

[Kefrem]

wow..its like...the man himself...*humbled bow* sorry still getting to know the forums

[CptPatriot]

Now, in Hero Designer(HD), you have two numbers to enter for the VPP framework: the Pool Points & Control Cost.

The way HD costs the VPP framework is 1 CP for each point in the Pool Points & 1 CP for every 2 points in the Control Cost field.

 

So, assuming you are using 85 pool points and the control cost controls the full quantity of the pool. The cost of the full VPP is:

• 85 Character Points for the 85 Pool Points
• 43 Character Points for the Control Cost to control the full 85 points of the Pool Points before limitations

The use of a bulky spell book to change the powers in the Variable Power Pool is covered under the rules as VPP Powers Can Be Changed Only In Given Circumstance(-1/2). You add this using the Add VPP-only Modifier.

 

The final cost for this VPP is 85 for the Pool Points + 43/(1.5) or 28 Character Points.

 

As for the cost of the 'spells' in the VPP, you have two things to look at.

Take the Real Cost of the powers. The total cost of all the powers has to fit within the Pool Points.

The Active Cost of the powers has to be lower than the number in the Control Cost field.

 

Please keep in mind, the number in the Control Cost field can be higher than your Pool Points.

 

I seriously hope this answers all your questions.

 

Edit: Oh, the use of the Power skill to enable manipulating the VPP hasn't really changed but under normal circumstances, you only need the skill to change the powers in combat conditions.

Edited April 30, 2018 by cptpatriot
Forgot to address the Power skill's use in VPPs

[Kefrem]

*gets brain hurt* whew...as complex as I remember. I think ill re-read the section a few times to make sure I get it right. Thanks for the help.

[Lucius]

22 hours ago, Kefrem said:

Ok ive decided to get back into champions. Bought the software...snagged the 6th edition, it seems however a few things have changed since I last played(4th edition) most notably with the VPP. I plan to run a mystic campaign and the vpp has always most endeared me to superheroic magic. the way I used to remember you needed the pool...then the control part of it then you need a control skill. Has this changed?

 

 

The Pool determines the total value in Real Cost worth of powers you can have active at one time.

 

The Control Cost determines the maximum Active Points any of the powers can have.

 

The Skill is optional. If you don't change powers in combat it's not necessary, and if you take a certain Advantage on the Control Cost it's not necessary. If you don't take the Advantage and want to switch powers in combat, you need the Skill.

 

22 hours ago, Kefrem said:

 

I'm having a /boggle moment can someone clear this up...I'm tryin to figure how to set It up in herodesigner. my fellow I'm working on has a vpp of 85 and I gave him a 42(or should it be 43 for half?) am I getting this correct?

 

 

Under 6th edition, the Pool is no longer linked to the Control Cost. They are now independent variables.

 

22 hours ago, Kefrem said:

 

also...how do slotted powers work again...I know in a standard multipower they get a huge discount but I'm not to clear on how your work them in a vpp. Do you portion out the vpp's pool points...like you could have 1 35pt power and another 45pt? etc?...man its been awhile since I did this, gonna a big and fast learning curve again..my gf wants to play badly lol

 

The pool is the total number of real points worth of power you can have at one time. You can have much more than that potentially, of course, but you can only have so much running at one time.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Unlimited Palindromedary

[Hugh Neilson]

For a character relying primarily on a VPP, and especially one which can change in combat, I find it very helpful to have a list of typical powers, with AP (skill penalty) and real cost.  Some powers are helpful to have in gradations (eg every 5 AP of Defense Power (to make the skill penalty easy to compute) gains these defenses for X real points; or +1d6 of this attack is X AP and Y RP).  We had a character relying on a Cosmic VPP for attacks once - kept a chart for the d6 result for base costs of 5, 10 and 15 point attack powers, at advantage levels in +1/4 increments, so it was easy to set powers on the fly.

 

But a "free form" VPP is typically  not a great choice for beginning Hero players.

[dsatow]

4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

For a character relying primarily on a VPP, and especially one which can change in combat, I find it very helpful to have a list of typical powers, with AP (skill penalty) and real cost.  Some powers are helpful to have in gradations (eg every 5 AP of Defense Power (to make the skill penalty easy to compute) gains these defenses for X real points; or +1d6 of this attack is X AP and Y RP).  We had a character relying on a Cosmic VPP for attacks once - kept a chart for the d6 result for base costs of 5, 10 and 15 point attack powers, at advantage levels in +1/4 increments, so it was easy to set powers on the fly.

 

But a "free form" VPP is typically  not a great choice for beginning Hero players.

 

Agree.  I've had people bring in VPP at cons who should not be using VPPs.  It really slows down the game and disrupts flow when they try to figure out what they can do with it on their phase.  The thing is, they see what the VPP can do and think its the best things since sliced bread and immediately want to have it.  I usually ban it from my games as an NPC only power just to prevent this sort of thing.

[Kefrem]

ok...I been reading up in the 6th edition book...but I'm still a little confused. When I work it up in the hero designer its blue...I'm guessing that means I built it wrong. 

 

how would I build say a magic pool with no skill roll, needs gestures and half phase action to change....if I can see it I can get a better handle on it.

[Lucius]

Mudras of Power:  Variable Power Pool, 50 base + 90 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (+1/2), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (162 Active Points); Gestures (-1/4), Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (-1/4) Real Cost 125

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wants an indoor heated Variable Power Pool

[Hugh Neilson]

10 hours ago, Lucius said:

Mudras of Power:  Variable Power Pool, 50 base + 90 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (+1/2), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (162 Active Points); Gestures (-1/4), Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (-1/4) Real Cost 125

 

OK, 50 point pool means you can have up to 50 real points of powers in the pool at any one time.  If you want more powers at one time, you need a bigger pool.  That pool always costs 1:1.

 

The control cost dictates the maximum AP of any one power in the pool.  Let's say we want up to 60 AP powers, so we set the control cost accordingly - 1/2 of max AP, so 30.  By default, it takes a full phase and a skill roll to change the powers in combat time.  We want a half phase and no skill roll, so a total of +1 1/2 advantages as Lucius shows.  We'll allow Magic Only as -1/4 and all powers have to have Gestures, so that's another -1/4.  30 x 2.5 = 75/1.5 = 60, so my VPP has a total cost of 60 + 50 pool = 110.  Lucius must have a higher AP limit for huis pool - he can have 90 AP powers, since his control cost starts at 45.

 

That means I could simply pick a 12d6 Magic Blast, Gestures for 60 AP/1.25 = 48 real points.

 

If I went with Lucius' higher AP max, I could have an 18d6 Mystic Blast, but I'd need at least -1 in total limitations to get it down to 50 or less real points (45 RP, since -1.75 would be 51 points so too big).  Maybe I'll Focus it through my OAF: Wizard Staff, so now it's -1 1/4 with Gestures = 40 real points.  I can have another 10 real points, so maybe I have a Mystic Shield of +5 PD, +5 ED, Resistant (15 AP), Costs END to Activate (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) as well.

[Lucius]

6 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

OK, 50 point pool means you can have up to 50 real points of powers in the pool at any one time.  If you want more powers at one time, you need a bigger pool.  That pool always costs 1:1.

 

The control cost dictates the maximum AP of any one power in the pool.  Let's say we want up to 60 AP powers, so we set the control cost accordingly - 1/2 of max AP, so 30.  By default, it takes a full phase and a skill roll to change the powers in combat time.  We want a half phase and no skill roll, so a total of +1 1/2 advantages as Lucius shows.  We'll allow Magic Only as -1/4 and all powers have to have Gestures, so that's another -1/4.  30 x 2.5 = 75/1.5 = 60, so my VPP has a total cost of 60 + 50 pool = 110.  Lucius must have a higher AP limit for huis pool - he can have 90 AP powers, since his control cost starts at 45.

 

That means I could simply pick a 12d6 Magic Blast, Gestures for 60 AP/1.25 = 48 real points.

 

If I went with Lucius' higher AP max, I could have an 18d6 Mystic Blast, but I'd need at least -1 in total limitations to get it down to 50 or less real points (45 RP, since -1.75 would be 51 points so too big).  Maybe I'll Focus it through my OAF: Wizard Staff, so now it's -1 1/4 with Gestures = 40 real points.  I can have another 10 real points, so maybe I have a Mystic Shield of +5 PD, +5 ED, Resistant (15 AP), Costs END to Activate (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) as well.

 

Let's say you have the Shield and Blast as your active Powers. Someone really annoys you so you want to turn them into a Toad.

 

You can shift some points into a Transformation attack to do that, but that means shifting them OUT of whatever they're currently doing. You could cut back the points you have in Blast for example, or give up the defensive Shield.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Or you can put points into Summon Palindromedary....

[IndianaJoe3]

14 hours ago, Kefrem said:

ok...I been reading up in the 6th edition book...but I'm still a little confused. When I work it up in the hero designer its blue...I'm guessing that means I built it wrong. 

 

HD displays the power text in blue when you've edited it. You can reset it by deleting all the text. HD will then recreate it.

[LoneWolf]

I agree with those that say a VPP should only be used by and experienced player.  For a less experienced player a multipower is a better choice.  They typical way to do this is to buy all your attack powers as ultra-slots of the pool.  Your defenses and misc. spell are purchased separately.  In many cases this ends up being not only a simpler way, but also a cheaper way. You also avoid the glass cannon syndrome that users  of a VVP often fall into. 

[eepjr24]

2 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

I agree with those that say a VPP should only be used by and experienced player.  For a less experienced player a multipower is a better choice.  They typical way to do this is to buy all your attack powers as ultra-slots of the pool.  Your defenses and misc. spell are purchased separately.  In many cases this ends up being not only a simpler way, but also a cheaper way. You also avoid the glass cannon syndrome that users  of a VVP often fall into. 

 

Or if you want the basic feel without the full complexity, go with a multipower and either all variable or a mix of fixed and variable powers. Just make sure they map out the configurations before the game and number them (most players can much more easily handle just picking a combination, even if there are a dozen or more, than the infinite possibilities of a VPP). Then have them pick a default configuration and that is what it is set to unless they change at their dex on their phase or abort to switch it to defensive powers.

 

- E

[Kefrem]

As for the whole vpp plan out your spells in advance and such...I get that..i played one long ago. I'm just having difficulty at the moment on how to get it to work right in hero designer. it says you have both the pool and control separate and the limiters and advantages apply to the control not the pool. I cant figure out how to tag one and not the other.

[dsatow]

36 minutes ago, Kefrem said:

As for the whole vpp plan out your spells in advance and such...I get that..i played one long ago. I'm just having difficulty at the moment on how to get it to work right in hero designer. it says you have both the pool and control separate and the limiters and advantages apply to the control not the pool. I cant figure out how to tag one and not the other.

 

That's because you aren't allowed to limit the pool.  Just your control on the pool.

[Kefrem]

Ok I figured out the pool thing problem..turns out somehow the HD bugged and made the power bugged as well. I had to delete it and remake it to get it to work. A new question though, I have the old *The Mystic World* supplement. in the section under spells it lists the *Deflecting Disk* multipower and I decided to try to remake it....um what happened to the power *force field*? I cant find it anywhere.

[dmjalund]

5 minutes ago, Kefrem said:

Ok I figured out the pool thing problem..turns out somehow the HD bugged and made the power bugged as well. I had to delete it and remake it to get it to work. A new question though, I have the old *The Mystic World* supplement. in the section under spells it lists the *Deflecting Disk* multipower and I decided to try to remake it....um what happened to the power *force field*? I cant find it anywhere.

 

it is now Barrier, but with the limitation Costs END to maintain

[dsatow]

27 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

 

it is now Barrier, but with the limitation Costs END to maintain

 

Actually its Resistant Protection.  Armor and Force Field have been generalized to Resistant Protection.  Force Wall is now Barrier and will continue to exists if it has Body or End is supplied if it doesn't have body.

[Kefrem]

Ahhhhh found it thanks.